Base URL: [http://spaces.org/archive/other/]

March 2003 73 posts, 2407 lines

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Toasted sesame oil? What inspired that question??

Nevertheless, a quick google search:


--ali--

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See [http://othergroup.net/shows] for a Bridge sponsored May boat trip.

(have I got that right?)

Go read the item "artboat2003"

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Hey folks;
-A few updates on the OtherGroup.net site and listserv

The last four posts are listed now, rather than just one. Hope this will make it easier for you to trace a thread and find the context for replies.

It could as easily include the last ten posts, or list posts in other than reverse order, and if you have any thoughts, or any design suggestions, post them here or send email to help [at] othergroup.net.

Send suggestions for any other art or discussion resources also.

(1) The categories 'Art and Gallery Links', 'Grants and Technical Assistance' and 'Jobs and Work Opportunities' were added to the free adds of the Notices page (others are: shows, spaces, sales).

To post to a category, address an email to {category} [at] othergroup.net -- see the page for directions. Then post a short description here, and point to the category and subject.

For the notice, use a brief description for the Subject line, maybe including the date of the event. For security reasons the Subject line is cleared of meta characters and periods, so don't count on the use of periods and funky punctuation.

(2) Links: If you represent a gallery, or want to put up notice of one, or any other art resource which can be reached with a URL, including yourself, send a description and the URL in the body of an email to links [at] othergroup.net with a descriptive Subject line. These will stay up.

If you have suggestions for other categories ('Used Bicycles' 'Art Escort Services' 'Lake Art Cruises') post these here or contact us. The notices page will be linked from Spaces Org soon -- which should increase the exposure by a factor of 100 or 1000.

A section on "internet style" has been added to the about page which suggests frequent paragraphs breaks in texts, and brief quotes. To wit:

.. and a few other caveats. Other suggestions welcomed.

Top Ten Picks has been removed temporarily (but will be back soon, Scott), pending introduction of an on-line editor, which will make it easier to update. An on-line editor has been introduced for FYI, and FYI will soon go real-time, while remaining a broadcast listserv.

Next time you send a reply to othergroup which was meant for Jane or Bill, or want to withdraw something you wrote, just ask to have the post removed. Send the post number (the # number in the [down] box link) with a request for removal to help [at] othergroup.net. Easy? As easy for us.

The archived pages are read, and are being re-archived by search engines. Don't let that shy you away from spouting off. There are 14 archive files, and 4 site files. In the last two months 8000 of these were requested.

If anyone actually reads this stuff is another matter. But take a look at the access file at [http://othergroup.net/access] (which is updated nightly) and note that there are plenty of requests for 6 to 10 files in a row -- plus the hits from the AOL ip-switching proxy servers.

The 'Monthly Reminders' which arrive at your mailbox on the 15th are mostly from the about page, but include additional information. Note that these are not archived. They will stop after May or June (when everyone has become an expert), except for possible off-line bulletins (like the recent notice about Topica).

The strictures on email and the cleanup of email at othergroup have managed to keep spam and the Big [at] Boss.com worm off this site and out of your mailbox. From the extensive headers recently added by Topica, it looks like they are under spam attack. And a look through Google reveals that the Big [at] Boss.com has broken into most of the UseNet and quite a few listserv's since mid January.

Since February, the error message you may have received as a return to an invalid email has an added paragraph which sums up the restrictions. This will probably explain the initial line which points to the actual reason for the refusal. 'Multipart' errors may take more than one try.

Also since February emails from othergroup have included a header, 'X-Size: **** bytes', where **** is the size of the email on arrival, including the headers and envelops.

Responses to errors [at] othergroup.net email address are filed. If you want an quick response on a question, use the help [at] othergroup.net address (which goes to Keri and me).

Hope all of this helps.
-/jno

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On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, a li w al s h wrote:

That may be a problem, I use the sesame oil with soy sause and garlic powder as a tenderizer (or whatever you call that when meat sits around in a dish for a day or so). Beats having to squash thousands of 1 mm diameter seeds by hand.

But since it is an oil, it also ends up in the broiling pan.. and I wasn't certain of its normally use, if for example you could heat it to 400 degrees F. Since it is poly-unsaturated, I think not. I'll go back to olive oil, which will stand the temperature. (I don't care about cholesterol.)

I should probably let meat tenderize by hanging it on a hook in the kitchen for a few days...

OK - this is not about art .. so, Ali, what exactly is 'Gallery 13?"


-/jno

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Hi Jno,

I haven't followed the thread - has your sesame oil burned?

Olive oil burns at high temps, but it is low in cholesterol.

I use Canola oil, which is also low cholesterol, but works fine for the few things I need hot oil for (potato pancakes).

Claire


-- Claire Wolf Krantz 903 West Roscoe Chicago, IL 60657 e-mail: cwkrantz at rcn.com www.clairewolfkrantz.org

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Greetings Othergroup,

The Chicago Dept of Cultural Affairs is devising a "Technical Assistance Program for Visual Artists" (aka. Survival Skills for Visual Artists). We've received some funding from the Tremaine Foundation to propose a program that would provide affordable, effective, ongoing technical assistance for Chicago's Visual Artists.

We'd like to enhance and market existing City programs (grants, exhibitions, some workshops on taxes + accounting, % for Art) other programs, ie.Chicago Artists Coalition, and possibly create new ones.

To this end, we are compiling a database of TA needs, existing resources, methods of delivery/distribution. We plan to develop a series of programs to serve the TA needs of artists (possibilities include: workshops, distance learning, discussion forums, print publications, individual assistance, website, networking opportunities, etc.)

So, I'd welcome your thoughts on: 1) what kind of technical assistance Chicago's visual artists would find helpful and/or essential; 2) What is already out there (and is it useful or could it be improved); 3) What can/should the City be doing to market existing programs; 4) What new programs can/should the City create.

Thanks for your consideration,

Barbara Koenen Project Manager Chicago Department of Cultural Affairs (312) 744-7649 bkoenen at mindspring.com

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B. Koenen wrote:

We (speaking, I am sure, for all the members of OtherGroup), would love some assistance. Is start-up money available, possibly retroactively? Or is this just 'technical' assistance, where the City hires the technicians, and we go to lectures?

And is this limited to artists, or can the benefits include organizations, galleries, studios, coalitions, colleges, art-departments, publishers, web domains, etc?

/jno

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OK, it was not burning or aflame. "Burnt" was just my shorthand for what the bottle calls "toasted sesame seed oil". It looked more exotic than the "plain, filted, wadded up sesame seed oil" bottle. But is smells burnt, and I asked if anyone knew anything about sesame seed oil, cause I use it to tenderize sides of beef. But never mind, I switched from soy sauce and sesame seed oil to left-over red wine and sesame seed oil, and the additional direction to wipe it off before grilling.

The bottle actually says "saturated - 2g, Monounsat - 5g, Polyunsat - 6g". So the "a polyunsaturated fat" aint right. But thanks for the first clues. And I should not heat it to 400 degrees, since it already transmongrified. Olive oil has about the same mix of fats.

And of course it has no cholestorol. Neither does water. It says so on both my sesame seed oil bottle and water bottle.

Next thread: house pets.
-/jno

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In response to recent Gallery 13 inquiries, I offer the following.

Gallery 13 was born in early December when we converted Chicago artist Dolan Geiman's home/studio into an exhibition space Aron Packer style. Translation: we painted the walls, threw the couches/mattresses into closets and storage and extended invitations to a number of local artists to co-exhibit work with Dolan in our space for weekend-only art shows.

We worked fast and organized events like art was going out of style as we knew the building would eventually be demolished. The demolition crew is finally knocking down our door and we are losing the space at the end of March. The landlord has agreed to this final collaborative project between Dolan and Josh Miller (the residency work that will be the veedon_pop show at Javacha Café March 14th) and a short film being shot by Nadav in the space the final week of March.

From here, the balance between and nomenclature explaining us as a mobile alternative art space or artist collective or art A-team is still uncertain. We are currently searching for a large raw warehouse-esque space to maintain our current momentum. (Anyone that can assist with this please email me!)

I envision a Pilsen gallery/Open-End/Bridge magazine/Law Office hybrid. Dolan will continue to produce/exhibit work and together we will continue to organize art shows and lectures in our space and other alternate locations.

I feel the loss of the Gallery 13 buzz and want to keep the eyebrows raised and inquiries flowing. Our hope is to transition from our vague Gallery 13 physical space to perhaps a migratory collective, extending our tentacles into innumerable locations, like an ooze of lectures/art exhibitions/art-related events that smell and taste of our productions. Think 1/2 Law Office, 1/2 early Aron Packer.

I want to continue to explore and push the limits of what people think of as gallery space while questioning the art displayed in the alternative art circle. While Dolan and I pursue these multifarious projects and approaches, the desire to have a buzz name or linking entity is less for notoriety or fame and more for momentum. It is easier for someone to observe a mound of snow versus scattered snowflakes of projects and I hope our drive has an avalanche-like effect that inspires and propels other artists/organizers/curators.

That is a snippet of Gallery 13 and its antics. But, sadly enough, the veedon_pop should be the last event with the Gallery 13 name attached. Unless, I suppose, we decide to become the gallery 13 collective or gallery 13 commandos or even gallery 13 mobile art unit.

Until we officially become a gallery or curating collective or some semblance of the two, look for us in the Pilsen-based artist collective, Polvo, and sprouting our heads in various locations across the city and Midwest.

//ali walsh//

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jno wrote:

Sure all the members of Othergroup would love some assistance, but I imagine that they would be very specific on what kind of assistance is really of interest. Which is why I posted the query.

What do you mean by "start up money?" Start up for what? How much? Loan or Grant? Chances are that start up money, beyond the city's existing grant programs, will not be the primary result of the plan. You know the story... we are working with less money than we have been for quite some time. That's why we are trying to figure out what else can be done (by the city or by private sector) to make Chicago's visual artists better able to continue to work as artists.

But that doesn't mean that the only alternative is a city-curated lecture series. Would a web site similar to spaces.org be of use? Would job, space, exhibition, grant, commission, production facility listings be of use? Is there an interest in workshops or websites or consultants for tax, copyright, permit, other business issues? Housing seminars? Mentor programs?

The funding we received specified visual artists. They can be represented as individuals or as part of an organization, college, studio, coalition, etc.

Barbara K.

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jno

you shouldn't use "left-over red wine" for anything. My brother is a chef and he tells me that if the wine ain't good enough to drink, it ain't good enough to cook with.

--s

At 02:33 PM 3/4/2003 -0600, you wrote:

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b.koenen wrote: "...Would a web site similar to spaces.org be of use? "

we don't need a web site similar to spaces.org, we just need money to pay jno for all of the work he has done and to pay him so that he can continue to improve spaces.org so that it can become an even better resource for the Chicago art community.

"Would job, space, exhibition, grant, commission, production facility listings be of use? "

yes! maybe these could be included on spaces.org someday?

keri

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barbara-

I agree 100% with keri that jno and spaces.org should be funded. you should seriously look into that possibility.

-cindy

--

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On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Scott Speh wrote:

"you shouldn't use "left-over red wine" for anything. My brother is a chef and he tells me that if the wine ain't good enough to drink, it ain't good enough to cook with.

I found that out today! We had ugly steak for supper, tasted something between sweetened vinegar and burned hay. So much for the left-over wine. I'll just drink it, a sip at a time. /jno

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On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, B. Koenen wrote:

"What do you mean by "start up money?" Start up for what? How much? Loan or Grant?

Cash money. Starting up a website dedicated to "an unmoderated discussion listserv of Chicago area artists, collectors, critics, curators, and dealers, on topics of exhibitions, art, fine art, criticism, reviews, opinions, galleries, and sesame oil" (Only joking; who would tolerate something like that?) -/jno

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Quoting keri butler :

Hear, hear. It would be most wise and efficacious for the City to apply resources to existing, functional models, rather than trying to re-invent the you-know-what. I believe that the City is (currently?) trying to learn from so-called 'shared resource' models, which would be great learning in this case. A City-based/driven initiative, although well-intended, will never have the reach, the relevance, and the efficacy of spaces.org and its ancillary sites/groups. Not to mention the timetable for 'launch' of such an 'internet presence' and the lead time required to update the website through any City agency. Which, of course, Jno makes lunchmeat out of, because he can throw out a webpage over breakfast. And that's another reason why spaces.org will always trounce the rest (sorry, Jno, I'm shameless in my appreciation).

Listings of other types would be useful, as well (again, hear, hear) but again, the very strong backbone already exists through spaces.org. The City has a great opportunity to do the smart thing and support a functional model that works well, that we already support and utilize, and that is an independent voice (this, however, may be the sticky point--as it tends to be with any new initiative--'control').

I usually remain silent on these groups, and apologize for sounding like a pest, a geek, or an academic, but I wouldn't want Ms. Koenen to think that the opinion about supporting spaces.org was only shared by two people on the list. I'm done now, and I promise to shut up, as well.

--Tamara

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have you tried hot pepper sesame oil? it is the best. especially good sprinkled on cold tofu cut in cubes, w/ some soy sauce and minced scallions. mmmm. but I digress.

Othergroup currently has 74 members, but Chicago has 10,000 artists. So this model is good, but only up to a point. I doubt that jno would want spaces.org to become an "official city site" (whatever that means) which is why I said "something like spaces.org"

But, how much start up money is needed for creating a website like spaces + the other listings that keri thought would be good? and then, how much money is needed to maintain it?

Are there other websites out there that we should be looking at as models as well ?

B

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remember - othergroup is only part of spaces.org. (Jno has the visitor numbers for the entire site). And, since it has become part of spaces.org (only recently) the membership has steadily grown, and the discussion has included a lot of new people. I think it would be great if this continued to grow - maybe several different discussion topic threads could be created or different forums that one could be a part of. there are many ways in which the current site could grow and be improved, but again, that takes administrative time (and, it would be nice if jno could be paid for his time).

Jno created a budget for this a while ago - when we were talking about working with a local nonprofit to get grants. maybe he could share the estimated budget...

keri

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I have long since felt the necessity of more organized discussion, information dissemination and resource archiving regarding Chicago art resources. Paling in comparison to Jno's computer skills, I began a discussion group in Topica devoted to this topic hoping to provide a forum for open discussion about the resources and opportunities that artists need-supplies, space, grants, artist career development programs, etc. I wanted the various non-profits in the city to feel they could disseminate information about their workshops, lectures and grants through this email listserve and simultaneously create a more organized feel to the multitude of artistic resources in Chicago. Eventually, I wanted to find a webmaster to assist in this project and develop a sophisticated Chicago art resource website..and possibly non-profit group. There are some models in the Bay area that inspired the project.

Clearly, this was before I found othergroup and spaces.org and Topica is not the way to go with this. I agree that the city has a great functional model with these sites and othergroup and spaces.org are in a fantastic position to evolve and expand to implement this vision.

Clearly the occasionally aloof/impenetrable nature of othergroup postings must discover new pores and discussion might be rechanneled into a multitude of different listserves. But I very much agree with Tamara that the backbone exists through spaces.org/othergroi[ and we should make plans for listserves/archives/discussion/workshop calendars/etc. with spaces/othergroup as the first assumption and foundation. Perhaps a separate website could be initiated through spaces.org that speaks exclusively (well exclusively here applies to a large sphere of information) to Chicago art resources.

To begin to answer Barbara's question more directly, there are innumerable non-profits that offer these sort of resources. I think the problem is less shortage of resources as solidified marketing of these programs. Around the Coyote offers numerous artist career development workshops, for example, but is constantly having to cancel these workshops for lack of attendance.

Time and money must first and foremost be addressed so we can find the best resource for solidifying all these resources into a website and discussion board.

//ali w//

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I wrote this off-line before Tamara posted..

b.koenen wrote:

"...Would a web site similar to spaces.org be of use? "

On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, keri butler wrote:

"...we just need money to pay jno for all of the work he has done and to pay him so that he can continue to improve spaces.org so that it can become... "

Thank you, thank you, although note that Spaces Org has a charter which reads in parts, "The sort-of white-walls design remains." As Thucydides noted of the 800 year old Constitution of Sparta, "It has served them well." Spaces will likely remain more or less as it is, the eight year old aesthetics has served it well. And it takes 20 minutes per week to update, unless I get bored and start playing with things.

And I don't need to get paid (thank you Cindy for yr vote) unless I need to involve other gearheads. I do this for entertainment, really, and it's a challenge. Start with an idea, and develop an inkling of how it might be done.. It's just art. "The only art is in the program," Judson Rosebush.

"Barbara= 'Would job, space, exhibition, grant, commission, production facility listings be of use?'

"Keri= 'yes! maybe these could be included on spaces.org someday?'

Want to start "ChicagoArt.Org" instead?

As an art resource entirely driven by whoever wants to use it for good purposes? Some malleable format determined by users? With no-body really in charge? If it runs by itself, I am all for it.

And not "someday" -- if any two co-conspirators are interested, I'll have a it up in a week. But we would need a number of ideas and concepts to start. Come on, wake up you lurkers, you can make history, be able to tell your grandchildren, "Yeah, and I came up with _that_ idea." We need the incubation possibilities. Sure, "job, space, exhibition, grant, commission, production facility" -- but how? and what else?

-/jno

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On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, B. Koenen wrote:

"have you tried hot pepper sesame oil? it is the best. especially good sprinkled on cold tofu cut in cubes, w/ some soy sauce and minced scallions.

Now yr talking! Did that when I was in my 20 year vegetarian phase. That was the stock sautee sauce (substitute: olive oil, add: garlic power and a mediterranian sweet spice - basil, marjorem, tarragon). But twenty years is enough. Now we are trying to recreate the taste of tofu with beef.

(forever behind)-/jno

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On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, keri butler wrote:

".. when we were talking about working with a local nonprofit to get grants. maybe he could share the estimated budget...

Deja vu...

But that budget included a bar and swimming pool! But (seriously) the budget included NFP overhead, and a programmer for a MySQL database and site security (I dont want to handle that in my spare time). So make allowances with the following..

- account and service...$ 3000 (liberal one year operation cost)
- development.............6800 (db design, scripting - cheap!)
- management..............1360 (office and supervision percentage)
- total..................11160

(The OG archive is not set up for tables!)

After one year the operating expenses reduce to the cost of a shared T-1 line, ISP account, phone line, registration, and continued tweeks and debugging. The tweeks and debugging can be extremely expensive if you fail to start with solid information design concepts and crack programmers.

This budget does not include any amount for promotion. It also assumes there are no excess bandwidth and storage charges, which for a commercial site would probably run $200 per month.

So, $10,000. A site like CNA would price at $200,000, a site like "Widget Mfg" would come in at $40,000 -- done internally, in three months, by two people. Yes, programmers make as much as shrinks, but not as much as lawyers (no-one should make as much as lawyers). And, yes, you could also hire HS kids with copies of Kompozer -- everyone is a web-site designer, like everyone is an artist.

But state money dried up; and by leaving off the multi-threads and an SQL database, Othergroup.net got done in 4 days. Besides, it's small, and was expected to have modest traffic (400 posts in 2002).

I know Tamara is right, having worked in the official system. It would be slow as snails to get underway and off the ground if invoked by City folks. Not that they cannot get things done overnight if it has to be done, but there will be too many people saying, "Let's see what we are getting into here," in order to create time for thinking on the project.

And there certainly ought to be room for quiet meditation. What we won't have is the concept of a web site as a living organism which just sort of grows up by itself -- not a magazine bound to immutable hard copies, or an exhibition moving toward an opening. It is more like a garden of weeds.

-/jno

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Jno, Tamara, Keri and others, Sorry its taken a while for me to respond. Thanks for figuring out approximately what funding would be necessary a site like spaces.org But, as Tamara noticed, we at the city are compelled to hash and rehash things. I certainly am. In that light, I'd like to know what you think of these other sites as well (if you're interested): www.artsnet.org.uk www.artscouncilbuffalo.org www.artsresourcenetwork.org www.artistsincanada.com www.calaa.net (California Association of Local Arts Agencies)

Regards, Barbara K.

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this one seems well designed: www.artsresourcenetwork.org

this looks like a good example of what not to do: www.calaa.net

-cindy

--

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On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, B. Koenen wrote:

"Jno, Tamara, Keri and others, Sorry its taken a while for me to respond. Thanks for figuring out approximately what funding would be necessary a site like spaces.org But, as Tamara noticed, we at the city are compelled to hash and rehash things. I certainly am.

After a silence of some days I was gonna post a comment of:

"silence"

But instead I looked at some available public data files over the weekend, and started to grep them for significant things which would be of interest or of use. Here is a list of possibilities (without hosting as one of them):

"lists of some interest"
- gallery and agency locations and phone numbers
- links - by god, links to everywhere in and around Chgo
- gallery and agency information, descriptions, contacts
- who is who, among dealers, curators, critics
- who does what among local artists
- resources: materials, shipping, legal, how-to, printing

Plus, easy links to __more__ information.

I put together a couple of flat files of data, just to see what things would look like, and some PHP web pages to present them. I'll point to them as soon as Cpoint admin aliases and provides a dns listing for ChicagoArt.Org (Org, not Net, and not Com, and not ArtChicago either).

Meanwhile, I described the proposed database to a related gearhead, ending with the comment, "Wanna do this, and how would you do it?" "How" is important because there are some complex data extractions and relational associations involved (well beyond a list of names or links).

The answer I got was, "I'd love to tackle this; I love complex databases." So we have a volunteer, and we will just get started, just to have a base to work from. You can strike $9,000 from the budget.

The other aspect is "hosting" -- where some service is presented to artists (or art professionals) with files located locally, rather than through links to elsewhere. Then we are into a deadlevel of security, endless fights about stupid Kompozers and fonts, and hosting costs (add $9,000 back into the budget). Hosting a service for artists would require design, negotiations, agreements, generation of texts -- read, "takes time". We should at any rate let the city do that.

But a database of information could probably be done in days, and to have it available would be a nice way to build up a clientel for future additions. We'll start there. Besides, I _too_ love complex databases.

I will now duck out of this conversation.
- /jno

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Looked at a few local agencies and galleries of some interest: Mainly I was looking for lists of galleries and agencies, links to sources, but also lists of on-line artists, exhibition archives.. etc. Not looking for working resources as yet. I'll follow Koenen's links on Wed.

[ARC Gallery] [http://www.arcgallery.org]
- lists 27 members with links, 5 years of exhibition archives

[Artemisia Gallery] [http://www.artemisia.org/]
- there may be a membership list, but it's behind a password
- spotty exhibition archives going back a few years (some in the 70')
- large 'resources' file, but much is out of town sites

[Chicago Artists Coalition] [http://www.caconline.org/]
- list 160 artist (they have to pay) [http://www.caconline.org/cac/alpharegistry.html]
- list of current openings (from their mag?)
- workshops, credit union, health plans, other.
- sells public resources lists (Sell?)
- extremely restrictive "terms and conditions" -- scary [http://www.caconline.org/webbytes/caconlineterms.html]
- site run by a third party, and uses Win-1252 char set

[Around the Coyote] [http://www.aroundthecoyote.org/]
- lists ~170 members (cant see: asp, js)
- regular workshops and edu programs
- Frames (I gotta get a new browser, they say)

[http://chicagoartdistrict.org] -- a pilsen overlord outfit
- about 32 artists listed, 5 galleries (cant see: JS)
- local calendar, but seemingly no archives
- impossible to navigate (I dont have JS)
- I have no idea what the relationship is to the Pilsen art area, all of it is also covered by [http://www.artpilsen.com/] (see next)

[http://www.artpilsen.com/]
- representing the same 5 galleries as above
- looks like spaces.org, brief and topical

[Chicago Art Net] [http://chicagoart.net]
- info on 80 galleries: descriptions, contacts, etc
- some archived openings (reputed to have three years on file)

[Chicago Art Dealers Association] [http://www.artline.com/associations/cada/cada.html]
- lists 45 galleries
- nothing else, although I didnt backtrack

[Caca Journal] [http://homepage.interaccess.com/~jpbrunet/]
- lists 13 critics (last update dec 99)

[Department of Cultural Affairs] [http://www.cityofchicago.org/CulturalAffairs/]
- events at their 4 or 5 galley spaces
- grant programs, help/ed programs at some longwinded location(s) [http://www.cityofchicago.org/CulturalAffairs/CulturalGrants/]
- links to galleries and stuff (the URL couldn't be longer) [http://www.cityofchicago.org/CulturalAffairs/CulturalProgramming/ArtsTechnicalAssistance.html#ArtsTAGuide]
- a hard to navigate link happy site: things go in rotation.

I have 275 galleries and agencies on my list, and 250 links, but no people. Just give me another moment. :)
- /jno

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"Now we are trying to recreate the taste of tofu with beef."
-Jno Cook, CA 3.2003

Thank you Mr. Cook for being the only man I know with wit enough to wage a meaningful battle on soy using beef, the original alternative meat. Drunken Cowboys the world over will be raising toasts to you for years untold. While our British allies will thank men such as you for making the future safe for children named Angus.

Where it only that stalwart people such as yourself could be found for the liberation of the other white meat, Jims Maxwell St. might still be on Maxwell St. Instead isolated on a peninsula betwixt highway and condominium as it is only furthers the divide between omnivore and herbivore.

One day perhaps we will learn to live together. Until then Omnivores have a new hero. I salute you Jno Cook.

Diego Bobby

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Hey, my calendar tells me it's time to fret about Art Chicago and The-New-and-Improved Stray Show. Hope you're not bored already.

I think after Art Chicago last year I decided that one really isn't missing all that much to skip it, and I'm leaning in that direction on these new incarnations of the Stray Show. Though I will never deny how I enjoyed and appreciated the opportunity to be a part of the Stray last December. Not sure that I'll ever be off of the fence when it comes to this stuff.

Speaking of factionalization: If I have anything invested in the stray spaces it is because many of them have been my friends. How did Thomas Blackman Associates (TBA) get the stray spaces to pay him money for appropriating their name? (Of course there is the argument that that name would not exist without TBA) Is taking a few potential bluechips out of the ranks of the out-of-pockets and dropping them in the oldschool commercial artworld ample payment for the work that so many people have done to make stray mean what it means? Maybe it is. Basically it seems like TBA used it's money and resources to force a lot of out-of-pocket spaces and groups out of an arena they built.

Fortunately the social networks that this art and these artists need are still intact and work will continue. You don't need art fairs to do art.

Mike Wolf

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Dear Mike,

I appreciate your comments. It seemed overdue that people have a discussion about the Stray Show, its meaning and impact (or lack thereof). I had hoped it could happen shortly after the Show and John and I of Hypothetical Continent were hoping to put something together. But maybe a little time was necessary--everyone just seemed exhausted and ready not to think about it immediately afterward.

But now you're ready to discuss it, and hurray! As to your comments, Stray was a name before the Stray Show happened. To pay money is ostensibly to receive value. A conventional answer might be that TBA provided a venue, publicity and logistical and technical support, areas of their expertise that the stray spaces might not be able to provide themselves. Why should TBA not cover their expenses in providing those services?

On the otherhand there seemed initially to be a process to the fair in which decisions were made by consensus. That seemed to disappear as the AIC collector's group became the beneficiary of the opening night event and advertising decisions were made in house at TBA. If the Stray spaces want to maintain control then opinions need to be put forward. A say in ALL decisions should be requested.

One of the things that I can identify as the root of these difficulties is putting the shows on with no lead time. Everyone is always impressed that the show comes off so well with so little preparation time. But the flip side is that many of these thorny questions could be sorted out if participants could feel like they had the time to discuss and sort them out. As it was, no decisions could be made other than the barest logistical ones.

It seems to me it is everyone's best interest to slow down, consider what is being produced and how and then clearly decide a tack to take. Chicago's art scene has so much energy and intelligence that it deserves a well considered presentation of its present state.

Lorelei

Lorelei Stewart

Director, Gallery 400, UIC 1240 West Harrison Street (MC 034) Chicago, IL 60607

312 996 6114 T 312 355 3444 F [http://gallery400.aa.uic.edu]

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"lists of some interest"
- gallery and agency locations and phone numbers
- links - by god, links to everywhere in and around Chgo
- gallery and agency information, descriptions, contacts
- who is who, among dealers, curators, critics
- who does what among local artists
- resources: materials, shipping, legal, how-to, printing (from jno)

somewhere in all this there is a need for:
-live/work spaces--where are the large live/work lofts, start-up artist communities, venues for residency work, alternate Podmajersky landlords with some vision -posting site for artist career development lectures-workshops
-posting site for calls for submissions--this would be enormous and I will leave this -to jno and his love for complex databases and more discussion
-art-related print publications bridge, Mouthtomouth, tenbyten etc.

this might fit in the "how-to" and "agency information" but I thought I would pull those from the hat

//ali//

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Lorelei,

I agree that a little reflection on the 2002 Stray Show is way over due. I know that after it was over I was happy to move onto the next thing, and reflect on the Stray only in relative privacy. I hate to drop this into some moral narrative but it's hard to resist, maybe now the stray world (if you will) is paying the price for that lack of follow-up dialog after Stray 2002. (Hey, it's only a moral narrative, there are a lot of other narratives here.) Read on:

I guess I wrote that last post under the presumption that a lot of people on othergroup were aware that there is another Stray Show being planned concurrent to Art Chicago. But from your response it seems like you were not aware of that.

I'm sorry to have been so presumptuous (it's actually par for my course).

So just how many people are aware that this is happening, I wonder?

My information comes from an email Heather Hubbs sent, that I got via one of my Stray Show '02 comrades, Brian Taylor. It is an invitation to participate in the May, 2003 Stray Show at the same location as the Dec., 2002 show. There is nothing on the web page about it (stray-show.com). I've also heard a bunch of rumors about this thing from the fabulous Michael Thomas. I will disclose what consistently seems to be the part of this invitation that garners the most attention: "The price of a 10' x 20' booth will be $750.00 US. The increase reflects an expanded advertising/promotion budget and increased production costs. We realize that this is a substantial cost increase for many of you. However, we are confident that the co-production of The Stray Show with Art Chicago will more than justify this additional cost." That's up from $300. Am I picking knits or whining when I say that this just cuts a lot of potential participants right out of the picture?! Including most of the spaces that made "stray" mean what it means!

You (Lorelei) said: "It seems to me it is everyone's best interest to slow down, consider what is being produced and how and then clearly decide a tack to take."

I agree, but I am always a strong proponent of slowing down when it comes to cultural production. Slow is the way to go (with some notable exceptions I can think of, mostly in activism). And maybe that's a confession of my pathological nostalgia for a world where we are more than our velocity. Anyway, sorry if this is defeatist, it seems a little late to affect any slow down of Stray Show 2003. Maybe if more people were more vigilant about follow-up discussions after '02 that wouldn't be the case. Like you say:

"If the Stray spaces want to maintain control then opinions need to be put forward."

I appreciate TBA's support of the stray world, and even appreciate the structure they set up with the stray show, to some extent, exchange of reasonable amount of money for services (value). But it seems that in this latest incarnation a lot of people will be excluded (a lot more people than in 02), priced out of the fun. And it seems to me that it debases what I thought the meaning of Stray was, DIY, out-of-pocket, unorthodox, take-what-you-can-get-use-what-you-can-take to show art. But I don't know what I expected. TBA is a business and it's too big. Big business is great at selling services (sometimes) but as anybody who goes to Art Chicago or a blockbuster show at a big museum will find, big business sucks at showing art. Splat!

Too little too late again.

Peace! Mike Wolf

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Does anyone get the sense that suddenly there are too many exhibition platforms, with not nearly enough work?

C'mon: Art Chicago, Art Boat, and Stray #3, all happening simultaneously and competing for the same 500 viewers? Why? Is there enough decent work to warrant this spastic flurry of activity?

I sense a bit of misguided ambition.

And a new power dynamic: Art Boat is the new "angry young man" context; the Stray Show has become solidly bourgeois within a year; and Art Chicago, of course, represents the guardians of marketable culture.

-- GF

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No, No I don't think its too late. If you and others care, you should make your voices heard and formulate conceptions of what Stray can be. I did know that Stray is planned by TBA to accompany ArtChicago. But if you and others are concerned that many are priced out, why not ask what services you get for the money. Where does it go exactly? What has increased in price? And what can you expect exactly if TBA is "confident that the co-production of The Stray Show with Art Chicago will more than justify this additional cost." Can that be true if TBA's notion of value comes from the sales potential Stray spaces might have during ArtChicago or do the Stray spaces find some other value in the production of group exhibits.

Yes, TBA has created a lot in putting on the Stray Show (1), not least of which is the opportunity to ask these questions. Its 8 weeks till the thing starts, right? Can't other people join in and give their opinions on how it should be presented? I remember meetings in preparation for Stray 2002 in which people were very vocal about the direction they wanted. Where are those voices?? If so many are going to work so hard to create the event maybe those many should help determine how it goes off.

Lorelei

(1) I have as much respect as anyone for the work they do to put on these mammoth events.

Lorelei Stewart

Director, Gallery 400, UIC 1240 West Harrison Street (MC 034) Chicago, IL 60607

312 996 6114 T 312 355 3444 F [http://gallery400.aa.uic.edu]

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my additional question, gabe, would be enough well-thought out exhibition platforms. Its one thing to have or not have the work. Its another to present it to its best benefit. This a discourse that I was happy to see stirred up by Really Real and one that it seems a lot of people hunger for.

:) Lorelei

Lorelei Stewart

Director, Gallery 400, UIC 1240 West Harrison Street (MC 034) Chicago, IL 60607

312 996 6114 T 312 355 3444 F [http://gallery400.aa.uic.edu]

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On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Gabriel Fowler wrote:

"the Stray Show has become solidly bourgeois within a year"

LOL - that was the goal.

But seriously, keeping the alt.galleries happy also keeps them quiet, and develops a next generation of dealers and patrons. That would be in TBA's interest as well as the Strays. No losers - unless they feel manipulated.

The Strays are a weird bunch - they exhibit the bulk of new artists in Chicago, they offer the bulk of exhibitions - and some work sells. And they are very earnest about it all, despite warehouse spaces, basements, shoestring budgets. And amazing organizational abilities.

Their numbers, 10 or 20, is small compared to the total of 250 exhibition venues in Chicago (which includes bars and schools), but measureable against the 40 or 50 "real" galleries. If I were TBA, I'd be sure to establish a relationship with them, and offer some concessions, for they could make nasty objections about representation, and in five years some of them will have gone completely legit -- er, I mean, "bourgeois".

- /jno

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I feel I should respond to this string of discussion partly because my gallery is in part responsible for the Stray Show and also because I respect the opinions of folks like Mr. Wolf and Ms. Stewert. I agree with everything that has been said.

More notice for these shows would be marvelous. We did the first stray in a matter of weeks and it worked out beautifully. But with more planning a better overall showcase or structure for the presentation of work could be had.

The spaces aren't actively involved any longer. We just get contracts and are asked to send money.

I think the stray show and art chicago are very important parts of our community. I don't wish to see either go away.

I don't know that it matters any longer if the chicago galleries participate. We aren't TBA's market. They need to make money and revitalize art chicago. this is a step in that direction. Stray is a token to the community but is meant more specifically to entice young dealers from New York and LA, etc to throw down along side art chicago. Its slowly being priced out of our range but that was in part the intention. Create a young fair that operates like art chicago but has the enthusiasm and vigor of the young spaces and can compete with Miami and armory.

Many spaces mine included have little desire to sell work. We aren't dealers. We love art. We love dialogue. We are fascinated with structures that can be constructed to last. We love the smell of a good idea. The first stray seemed to meet these motives head on.

TBA is helping the dealers amongst us. Thats not so bad. As artists eventually we'll get around to thinking we deserve to make money for our work. Real galleries come in handy then. Real art fairs come in handy to. If some of the people we know are involved so much the better.

Community. This is a huge issue. I don't think it ever gets enough attention. This is our community. We can do anything we want with it. We can build stuff and break it. The thing is, its ours. Its yours and mine together. If the stray is no good then don't participate. Not even a little. We can do anything we want here.

I personally feel it will do fine without me (stray). Work will be sold dances will be danced and people will read all about it on artnet.

But let me just say one more thing. If you don't want work to be viewed as commodity. Stop letting these venues have so much sway and get behind some structure that isn't commerce based. Its your community. The galleries do what you want (at least the small ones do). If you don't want to be represented, don't want to make work to sell, don't want things that glorify these institutions then don't keep sending your slides to spaces that do this. If you want a stray show that doesn't exemplify these things then build a bianale or some such that isn't an art fair. TBA after all is only going to do what TBA does and that is look after chicago after it secures its own safe place. This happens to be making art fairs happen. Nobody gets pissed about a dog being a dog so way waste energy getting mad that TBA does what TBA has always done.

I guess discussion on this issue is good but most of you are about two years to late to change the direction this train happens to be heading. I would personally just try and build something new that reflects the community you see. That was the spirit that got most of the Stray(tm.) spaces started to begin with. Its never to late for that.

Michael S. Thomas, Director Dogmatic (Diego Bobby)

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Wow Jno I didn't know you cared. At any rate what do the stray spaces have to bitch about? Every one loves us right? Right? DB

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first of all, to call TBA big business kind of makes me laugh. maybe because i work there. I guess if you mean that TBA works in the art market
- but I'm not sure. And, just to confirm - this email represents my own personal thoughts - not the thoughts of TBA.

anyhow, even though I do work there, I have been pretty much completey non-involved in the Stray Show, so please correct me if I get my facts wrong. However, I think the whole thing is kind of funny. I mean, when I went to the first stray show I thought It was just like a mini-Art Chicago. Nothing there was "cutting-edge" really. (Actually, I really liked the video room). Not that the work was bad, it was just your basic art market fare, or at least it was presented in that way. And that's ok, but a precident was set and if you didn't like it, why did it continue?

In the last (2nd) stray show it was the same thing, just bigger - only Law Office, Deluxe and a couple others did anything that was different from the normal art fair booth. But, overall it looked really good - and, there were new spaces from other cities which is really cool, no?

Anyhow, I wonder which molded which - the walls or the art? What I mean is
- most of the stray galleries already fit in quite well to this art market situation. And I think the idea is to help those galleries grow and build a collector base so that maybe they could someday afford to do Art Chicago (or some other fair). And, the hope would be that these galleries would stay in Chicago because for those people who like it here - they want it to be cool.

I'm not saying that this is TBA's agenda, I'm just thinking about it. This is why I think the Contemporary Arts Council became involved - so that hopefully some of them would buy work from the stray galleries. Anyway, it seems like if you didn't have these art-market related goals in mind then you wouldn't have participated in the second Stray show. or maybe there isn't/wasn't a clear consensus on what exactly the stray show is supposed to be.

The only bad thing is that with a higher price certain collaboratives will be left out - but maybe there's a solution - like an Invitaitonal for Stray!

sorry, I'm getting delirious. but maybe there could be room for those who can't afford the higher rate.

sorry, I also have to say something about costs - that Kingsbury location is not cheap. And the walls, and lights and fencing, and advertising - that's expensive too. why don't you pull a real grassroots effort and build your own walls for the next show? I just hope nobody thinks that this is actually a money-making venture.

Planning - I would love to have more time for planning. but, I guess sometimes you just have to throw it up and see what happens. but then again, we've already seen what happens. hm. maybe something like this should have been thrown up somewhere easier - like a parking lot or something (remember one year Chuck M did an exhibition in a rented van right near Navy pier?).

keri

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Michael Diego:

About yr stray long post: you could not have spoken better. I think you brought up something important, which a lot of people forget, or are in conflict about: The alt.galleries are about exhibiting work, not about selling (OK, if it get sold, good, but ...) (at least, that is how the artists see it) (I think)

And "why I care" -- where else am I gonna show work? /jno

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Well, chillun, I seen some shows in my day. Folks usta do art in apartments and hotel rooms, in borrowed spaces and trucks, and Flotilla just had things bobbin' in the water. Doesn't seem like that long ago.

Now the paradigm seems to be to get out of school and have your livingroom listed every month in the Reader as a claim to legitimacy. The Stray Show needs $750 worth of fancy lights/publicity/bureaucracy to compete with Miami and the Standard guys booking space on a tourist boat counts as a newsworthy stunt.

All of this seems like a bad idea. There is far too much energy wasted on trying to be, or arguing about, a legit venue, and far too little energy wasted on making something that is worth looking at and talking about.

If you want to show your stuff to your community, the logistics are pretty simple. People will show up to your apartment or truck or coffee shop or vacant lot. (of course, it helps if you make something worth looking at or talking about.) If you want to become rich and famous from doing this, you are in the wrong business and the wrong town.

michael

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We seemed to have passed 10,000 file hits last night,
- see [http://othergroup.net/access]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, a li w al s h wrote:

"somewhere in all this there is a need for:
-live/work spaces
-posting site for artist career development
-posting site for calls for submissions
-art-related print publications

To Ali's list..

-live/work spaces: [http://othergroup.net/spaces]
-posting site for artist career development: [http://othergroup.net/jobs] and [http://othergroup.net/grants] .. but maybe we need "assistance?"
-posting site for calls for submissions see [http://othergroup.net/shows]
-art-related print publications: will add a links list

I will set these up as Forms, soon, so it can be done on-line. Might be easier than email.

- /jno

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How about lectures, forums and workshops? ...everything from the event last night at the Chicago Cultural Center to Around the Coyote Artist and Taxes, Grant writing, etc. Saturday workshops?

ali

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On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, a li w al s h wrote:

"How about lectures, forums and workshops? ...everything from the event last night at the Chicago Cultural Center to Around the Coyote Artist and Taxes, Grant writing, etc. Saturday workshops?

Good idea. I'll add it in both locations in a while - "Cao" should be up and propogated after this weekend. Sample at [http://othergroup.net/org/] -- comments from this august group will be appreciated, and dont expect anything to stay the same.
- /jno

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hello othergroup,

went to see Scott Wolniak's show at College of DuPage, and just wanted to say that it's worth seeing if you can make it out there (disclaimer: he's a friend, but I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it).

He's got a couple new videos that are optically entrancing and weirdly surreal, and a nice departure from previous work. I'd be interested if anyone else saw the show what they thought. it's up through the 22nd:

these are the directions scott sent out (driving in the morning will help avoid traffic):

-Eisenhower Expressway (290) West.
-Stay left at split, taking the 88 tollroad west (follow signs to Aurora)
-(Shortly after the 40 cent toll) Exit at Highland Ave.
-Right onto Highland, then an IMEDIATE Left down ramp, onto Butterfield Rd.
-Take Butterfield for 5 min. or so, past 355, and 53.
-Turn right onto Park.
-Turn Left onto Fawell
-Park in the giant lot.
-Enter at Main Entrance of Art Center.

on a different subject: I think artboat should happen during some other time besides art chicago time.

-cindy

--

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Agreed. This is a show of well made and well-conceived work. The two projections made after the one done for his mfa show are good examples of an artist taking what seems to be a pretty simple idea all the way to it's end. They reminded me a lot of the video work being done by the artists Xu Zhen and Yang Zhengzhong. A lot of interesting details, socially provocative in a totally open-ended kind of way, and fun to watch. I really can't say anything bad about this show. I walked away satisfied. Who wouldn't want to be friends with him?

Dan w.

Cindy said:

"went to see Scott Wolniak's show at College of DuPage, and just wanted to say that it's worth seeing if you can make it out there (disclaimer: he's a friend, but I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it).

"He's got a couple new videos that are optically entrancing and weirdly surreal, and a nice departure from previous work. I'd be interested if anyone else saw the show what they thought. it's up through the 22nd:"

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Cindy writes…call me a romantic, but I liked Amanda's gold shoes hanging on the telephone wire outside. I could not agree more. I also thought that this was a very strong and provocative piece.

The other pieces in the show I admired were Ruby Slipper Sneaker Covers, 2001; Still life, 2002; and Tragedy and Tragedy, 2003. I was less interested in the photography and do not know if it is a question of mere taste, or if there is concrete objective truth to my critical process. Which brings me to the word romantic in Cindys statement. I must admit, I felt guilty liking these works. But why? What is it, precisely, that makes appreciating these works romantic? I think it has something to do with the works ability to consistently evade rational criticism. My objective criticism-o-meter does not have the right setting to perceive these objects. I can’t say this is good because of this, or this is bad because of that. The forms do not necessarily equal their content, something is occurring and it doesn’t ring intentional or unintentional. I feel like I am looking at an abstract painting, only the medium is not paint, but rather, the aesthetics of post conceptualism. I can’t like this. I shouldn’t like this, but I do.

I cannot help but recall Allan McCollums vases when I look at Still Life, but all of the content is washed away and I am left with an arrangement of clean homelessness. I keep asking myself, what does it mean! And keep arriving at the conclusion that it doesn’t matter. It wasn’t created with this intention. It’s modernism all over again. Still Life is poetic and personal, even if its not. No rational deduction can be made, and you either accept it on its terms or you do not. Usually with work that is personal and poetic I can easily disregard it as being bad art and walk away. What keeps me coming back for more? Its indulgent, decadent and awful, but I want to believe it is somehow, honest. It would be an extra bonus if it was intentionally so. However, it seems that intention matters little in the artworld today. Maybe that is where my conflict lies. Am I just becoming an old fuddy duddy, willing to escape into irresponsible worlds of personal interpretation? Is it taste or is it meaning? Or, am I becoming refined to appreciate work that can be both and neither? Development or regression. Are we perpetuating a world of surface? Or, are we piercing the essence of surfaceness?

In the tier of knowledge where moral distinction is absent, maybe I just don’t want to know anymore. I’m reflecting on the numerous conversations I have had concerning this very subject, recalling specifically the Feng Meng Bo show at the Renaissance Society, January 2002. It doesn’t matter how it got here, just that its here. I couldn’t except that then and I don’t want to accept that now. I want artists to be responsible and take, head on, all aspects of the production of meaning. We cannot simply offer our random meanderings to the public for inspection and leave it to them to project their meanings onto our work. Its lazy.

Scene of Changery, however, comes off as earnest. I cannot quite figure out where I stand. The bronze cast sneakers hanging on the telephone wire are actually the most unromantic piece in the show. The medium signifies traditional high art, yet is presented in the form of sneaker in a location connected to poverty. It interacts with the space in an intelligent way, reflecting the neighborhoods past and its inevitable future, and passes no literal judgment. It simply hangs there, passive and conscious, saying this is the way of the world, and I’d like to show that to you. There is a desperation to communicate that I for one cannot ignore, regardless of the validity of the attempt.

Ben Foch

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With Stray being at the same time also, maybe Artboat should be at another time. There is a lot going on all at once. But, I guess its too late! We will all have to cross our fingers and make do. Maybe take advantage of the momentum?

Ben Foch

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Hi All,

See [http:/othergroup.net/shows] for a Bridge sponsored March 28 film show.

Go read the item "Bridge.2-Year"

Kind Regards,

Michael Workman Editor-in-chief, Bridge 119 N Peoria, #3D Chicago, IL 60607 Ph: 312-421-2227 Fax: 312-421-2228 www.bridgemagazine.org

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Sorry to have dropped the whole stray show dialog. I'm a little preoccupied right now, mostly with bird watching and this photo project my friend turned me onto. I'm basically totally enthralled by it. It's project that Paul Chan has initiated and I'm curious if anybody else has checked it out, participated in it, or has any ideas about it.

It's called the Baghdad Snapshot Action. It is a stark contrast to the way many artists, like Gursky, Cindy Sherman, or Jeff Wall--to name a few--are using photography. As many have pointed out, large format color prints often involving complicated sets and expensive processes are what fine art photos look like right now, and they are often very gorgeous. But Chan's project demonstrates how photography can be gorgeous, cheap, and touch a huge audience, much more huge than the Gursky or Cindy Sherman shows at the MCA did.

Chan was in Baghdad, Iraq, with the Iraq Peace Team ([http://www.iraqpeaceteam.org/),] a group of activists "on the ground in Iraq working in tandem with those in the United States and the world who seek to prevent a U.S. attack on Iraq." While there, he made a series of digital snap shots of his hosts and various folks out in the streets. The candid pictures show what appear to be regular citizens of Baghdad hanging out, partying, posing and dorking for the camera. Many of the photos look like they could have been taken just down the street, here in Chicago, accept for certain details; in my favorite shot a young girl carries a large gas can, something that would look a little odd here. Each picture is labeled, "Baghdad" and had a date, most of them are from Dec, 2002 and January, 2003.

All of the photos are posted on Chan's website ([http://www.nationalphilistine.com/)] and can be downloaded as PDF's, in either color or black and white, individually or as a whole portfolio. The site chronicles the ongoing campaign to post these pictures throughout NYC and follows a resulting arrest of two people in conjunction with this campaign. The site implicitly invites anyone to print the pictures out, copy them, and post them in public (though I have some hanging in my living room where they look quite good and serve as a reminder...). Further more the site has a list of cities all over the world where the pictures have been spotted.

Whenever someone asks me what my favorite movie is I just can't come up with a response, it's the same with favorite colors. But, for whatever it's worth, I can now say what my favorite photography project is.

Peace Now, Mike Wolf

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Is there truth to the rumor that you haven't seen Really Real or that you came to the opening but haven't been back to see the naturally-occurring camera obscura or the Beaver Trilogy by Trent Harris.

Don't miss the last Really Real Free Lunch, Friday noon -2 pm., 3/21; Teardown Party, Saturday 2 pm; special screening of The Beaver Trilogy, Thursday, 7 pm.

Gallery 312 312 N. May 312-942-2500

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anything resolved with Stray? always thought it was a good idea -- almost shut out last year-- not participating this year because I'm in the invitational at art Chicago. would totally do it again if allowed by the masses -- regardless if you "want" to make $ or not, important to understand anywhere in the globe there are fairs to make money and fairs to make contacts (i.e. getting the good work shown) -- trust me I do plenty of fairs if you want to talk about non-commercial ventures. I think it is important to let people know that there are interesting galleries/ spaces/whatever you want to call them in Chicago especially this year seeing fairs in too may cities. I agree that the increased price for Stray during May is prohibitive... I have no idea to suggest what could change the cost structure -- I actually know the TBA agenda and know they are not making money on this venture. All I know is that they have the right intentions and are always open to your comments. All I can say is think of what you are trying to achieve and can this be the avenue... monique meloche ps- I don't see any problem with the artboat -- TBA has been trying to do a boat cruise for their VIPs forever -- do it now!

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On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, bulka wrote:

"There is far too much energy wasted on trying to be, or arguing about, a legit venue, and far too little energy wasted on making something that is worth looking at and talking about.

Hey Michael;

I agree, but there is a dual desire to be both an exhibition space and a sales space. I think you are also right about, "If you want to become rich and famous from doing this, you are in the wrong business", but you can't tell that to a gallery which occassionally sells something. They (we) all live by hopes and dreams. At least the Stray galleries present things worth looking at. That may not nbe important for collectors, but it is important to artists.

Established sales galleries probably do $2,000 to $4,000 per week in sales as a minimum, and not from shows, but by telephone. What other level of gross income will support a staff of two or more, and pay rent on a space in some foofoo district?

But I think the 'Floating Stray Show' is a great adventure; it is just an extension of that Rider truck parked in the lot at Pershing and Illinois a couple of years ago.
-/jno

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A recurring theme:

"TBA is not making any money on the Stray Show"

That's great, and I love Blackman & Co., but the money issue begs a question:

If exhibitors paid $300 per booth at the Kingsbury location in December, why are they paying $750 now?

I certainly hope SOMEBODY is making money with a $450 price increase.

GF

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No. My bet is that no one is.

I haven't seen the books or talked to him about it, but it is my bet that Tom was loosing 500 bucks per booth in December and now he's trying to break even. The lost money is an investment in the art community which Tom hopes to recoup in future years as the Stray galleries (or at least some of them) hit their stride and become profitable.

Curt

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On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, Curt wrote:

"... it is my bet that Tom was loosing 500 bucks per booth in December and now he's trying to break even.

And what is the cost of a 'regular' space? The Reader quoted something a few weeks ago, but the papers were recycled. It was like a couple of grand.
-/jno

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Jno..

Still getting 2 copies of these emails Anyway to eradicate this problem?

Did you talk to Miguel about your installation??

//ali//

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On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, a li w al s h wrote:

Unsubscribe one, I will

fixed. too many knobs played with. I pulled the guts out and set it next to the box so they can henceforth see what they are doing if they twidle knobs. /j

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well, we could look at some numbers... I need help filling in the blanks though.

300 x 40 = 12,000 lease on 1418 W. Kingsbury = $13,000 lease of lights = ? paying people to re-paint, move, install walls = approx. $2000 renting fencing = ? renting tables and chairs (for cafe areas) = ? renting coat check racks/hangers = printing of postcard = ? advertisements in Reader = ? Heather's time = a lot

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On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, Keri Butler wrote:

"well, we could look at some numbers... I need help filling in the blanks though.

And fill in this blank: what is the rental cost for a 'normal' booth at ArtChicago?

Hey, sorry about the knobs and stuff. I too got caught in one of those 'Reply-To' things (as, I think, did Ali). At least I didn't reveal my thoughts on Catholicism. :)
-/jno

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I'm having a hard time tonight caring about the cost of renting a coat check rack.

I'll be at Federal Plaza at 8 AM Friday, hoping not to be arrested before coffee.

This shit makes these niggling negotiations seem petty, and the nik-naks of the Real show even more silly and irrelevant.

I'm not part of any organized group, but I march with an ad hoc skeleton band. Come play with us or talk to me if I can help some other way.

Michael

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Thank you Michael Bulka. Anyone who opposes this stupid war and would like to participate in something exhilarating that costs a lot less than $750.00 would do well to head downtown at some point today. I do not go to very many protests and marches, and was not part of any organized group either, but last night was a powerful and important experience. You don't have to chant those chants if you don't want to. Come enjoy the pleasure of walking through downtown Chicago in the middle of the street with hundreds of other decent and happy civilly disobedient people. If you are feeling as much tension and sadness as I was this week, I would recommend coming out as a terrific way of alleviating some of that misery and being with a lot of very normal, fine people - many of whom will be your friends who also needed to get out of the house to express some of their dismay about the hopelessness they are feeling. My hope is that after regaining some semblence of humanity, I'll be able to closely think about art projects again too. Many artists are naturally having a pretty hard time getting any work done this week.

Marc

bulka wrote:

"I'm having a hard time tonight caring about the cost of renting a coat check rack.

I'll be at Federal Plaza at 8 AM Friday, hoping not to be arrested before coffee.

This shit makes these niggling negotiations seem petty, and the nik-naks of the Real show even more silly and irrelevant.

I'm not part of any organized group, but I march with an ad hoc skeleton band. Come play with us or talk to me if I can help some other way."

Michael

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"And fill in this blank: what is the rental cost for a 'normal' booth at ArtChicago?"

Booth space at art fairs typically costs somewhere between $35-$40 a square foot depending on the city and the fair. With the smallest spaces usually being about 200 sq.ft. So that's about $7000 for a booth, plus the cost of light rental, additional walls, catalogue pages, furniture rental, electricity, etc. Easily another $1000-$2000. TBA does their booths in packages - costs about $9000.

You can view the ArtChicago application with prices at: www.artchicago.com/pdf/2003Application.pdf

I think the Scope show charges in the neightborhood of $3000 to $4000 to be in a hotel room.

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(I received this from my friend Alex Lynn. Leah)

PLEASE READ

The following article is transcribed verbatim from its original publication in the Wall Street Journal of April 17th, 1986. It was written by Irish journalist Alexander Cockburn immediately following the United States bombing of Libya. At the time, the U.S. was pursuing an aggressive military policy against Libya and the Libyan leader Muammar al-Qaddafi. Some of the arguments set forth in this polemic will sound familiar to anyone with an interest in the current sad state of U.S. policy and its impact on world affairs. U.S. foreign policy under Bush II is nearly identical, in both methods and hypocrisy, to the bankrupt policy of the regime established under Reagan and Bush I. If the terms ‘Iraq’ and ‘Hussein’ are substituted for ‘Libya’ and ‘Qaddafi,’ this article becomes shockingly current, and for this reason if none other, it is well worth reading. The political advantages of waging a ‘war on terror’ are neatly articulated in Cockburn’s analysis of the double standards applied to compliant versus unruly foreign dictators.

Please read this, and circulate it freely, as you see fit. This article can be found in the WSJ and on pages 409 – 411 in a published edition of Cockburn’s writings from the Reagan era, entitled Corruptions of Empire (New York: Verso, 1987).

March 20th, 2003

Bombing Libya by Alexander Cockburn

In the face of the negligible threat posed to U.S. interests – and to the world – by Muammar Qaddafi we now witness the U.S. tossing aside elementary dictates of law, evidence, morality, compassion and proportion; all discarded in a gust of national self-congratulation.

Law: Since the raids against Tripoli and Benghazi would quite clearly have been illegal had the U.S. invoked a principle of retaliation, President Reagan cited Article 51 of the U.N. Charter claiming the right of self-defense against future attack. But this piece of legal justification is equally without foundation. The purpose of Article 51 was to give the right of self-defense to any U.N. member state actually sustaining attack, until the Security Council could take appropriate action.

But, of course, since the U.S. was not under stack by Libya at the time of the bombing raids, it has become necessary to invoke the threat of future attack, equipped with the usual convenient ‘intelligence report’ of imminent Libyan conspiracies. Is the Reagan administration now raising prophecy to the level of international juridical principle? If so, the Nicaraguan government, very reasonably determining that the U. S. is planning an attack on its territory, has the right to bomb Washington. Denis Healey, shadow foreign secretary in Britain’s Labor opposition, pointed out to ABC’s Ted Koppel on Tuesday night that by this same rationale of defense against future attack, Britain could bomb apartment blocks in New York and Chicago on the ground that they contained sending money and military supplies to Irish Republican Army members in the UK.

Evidence: Although he cannot legally claim the right of retaliation, the president has invoked the bombing of the Berlin nightclub as justification for the attacks on Libya, saying the evidence of Libyan guilt is ‘irrefutable.’ The U.S. media now echo him with overwhelming talk of ‘overwhelming’ evidence. But how overwhelming is it? As late as April 14, U.S. and West German officials were speaking of ‘suspected’ Libyan involvement. Only later came predated assertions of certainty by April 5.

Nothing in the history of the Reagan administration – whose relationship to veracity has been spasmodic at best – gives one any encouragement to credit such claims. The administration’s idea of ‘irrefutable evidence’ is anything CIA director William Casey chooses to put under plain brown wrappers. And, on Reaganite logic, if the Libyans were implicated in the nightclub bombing, the could no doubt similarly claim this was retaliation for U.S. military activities in the Gulf of Sidra in the last week of March: the London Sunday Times has quoted a British engineer in Libya as having said that on the basis of his radar observations, U.S. planes overflew Libyan soil before the Libyan missile batteries opened up. More than 50 Libyans apparently died in those attacks.

Would not the evidence as easily suggest that for the second time the Reagan administration sought a (politically popular) confrontation with Libya on the eve of a congressional vote on funding of the Nicaraguan contras, and that the eccentric interpretation of Article 51 could be designed as an excuse for suture bombing of Nicaraguan installations?

Morality: That so many prominent citizens of a large and powerful country now delight in calling the leader of a small country a ‘mad dog’ indicates that dignity and self-possession have yielded to childish, brutish emotions. To hear and to watch politicians and commentators talking with abandon about ‘taking out’ Col. Qaddafi, even ‘nuking’ him, in the name of ‘self-defense,’ is to be reminded of the way the Nazis used to speak. Hitler liked to talk about self-defense just before he attacked a small nation. Is it really now the policy of the U.S. to attempt aerial assassination of leaders it opposes? A dead Quaddafi would render all the more weighty the charges addressed against the U.S. act.

All the talk about efforts to limit ‘collateral damage’ by bombing strikes of ‘surgical precision’ is the purest flimflam, made all the more squalid by subsequent shifting of blame to ‘hung’ fuses or Libyan missiles. If you bomb a city at night – or by day for that matter – you are going to hit civilians, as the Reagan administration knew well. The U.S. military certainly knew. With the use of infrared viewers and laser-guided equipment, at least 20% of the bombs would go wild.

Compassion: The president exults and the people exult with him. The speak of a victory over terror. Let them remember what they have wrought. ‘In the wreckage of what had been a comfortable two-story villa,’ went an Associated Press report, ‘rescuers found the body of Mohammed Ibrahim al-Shirkawy, an elderly merchant. His body still dressed in nightclothes was buried in rubble on the top floor bedroom. Across the street in a one-story villa … reporters walked through pools of blood on the marble floor. In one room where neighbors said children had been sleeping, bed sheets soaked in blood lay strewn about the floor. …’ Think of Mr. al-Shirkawy before you dance in the streets.

Proportion: How is it that the Reagan administration could, without any apparent sense of irony, proclaim its duty to wage war on terrorism at the very moment it was seeking millions in Congress to export terrorism, via the contra clients, into Nicaragua? How is it that Col. Qaddafi can be enlarged from a figure of puny consequence into the world’s premier contriver of terror? Amnesty International reckons his unfortunate political victims in two figures. Since 1980, more than 50,000 people have died in El Salvador, largely as a result of right-wing violence condoned by the U.S.

In the shadowy world of the Reaganite imagination, Col. Qaddafi is a figure of immense utility, an easy demon, in pursuit of whom all common sense may be abandoned, just as a war against ‘terror’ substitutes the geography of political paranoia and prime-time posturing for the geography of the real world. Is terrorism the main enemy, as opposed to famine, disease, underdevelopment? Is it a matter of national self-congratulation that when it comes to the map of paranoia, the U.S. inhabits the same latitudes in which it locates its foe Col. Qaddafi, though with infinitely more consequence for the world, and thus deserving of far greater censure?

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I received this from a friend from high school who after graduation gave up a scholarship to study photography to go into the Marines. He could be one of the few people with whom I associate myself (other than older relatives) who does not share my politics. I was appalled that he forwarded this to me. I was appalled at the selective knowledge the writer's opinions are based on. I acknowledge that my ideology is most likely as skewed by emotion and irrationalities, but I am secure in my anti-war position no matter how it is constructed. I thought I would share the following email 1. because I find it inconceiveable and 2. to give those folks heading out to anti-war protests an idea of what brings out the counter protesters who will be shouting back.

Leah

This was written by Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.) who retired with 25 years in the Navy (Korea and Vietnam).

Now I Know Why I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself,

"Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

Now I know why.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself,

"Why weren't we prepared?"

Now I know why.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.

On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers.

I will not be manipulated.

I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.

I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely -- nor should they be expected -- to show deference."

I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America.

I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly, "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport.

I will not be influenced by so called, "antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the right of expression to chant anti-American obscenities.

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines.

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality.

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told the Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"

I will force myself to:

-hear the weeping
-feel the helplessness
-imagine the terror
-sense the panic
-smell the burning flesh
- experience the loss
- remember the hatred.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?"

Now I know.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.) Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine. Keep this going until every living American has read it, and we don't make the same mistake again

"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

~Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC

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More police than people at the plaza this morning. Your tax dollars at work.

We were very polite, but they still filled a couple of wagons.

See you tonight.

michael

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These sentiments are really scary to me. My father was in the air force for 25 years and I have had to deal with the same arguments. It can get pretty ugly when these issues divide families.

one thing that caught my eye in his email was: "some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others" what hypocrisy!

anyhow, I have been going to the protests and some anti-war meetings. The problem I've found is that I don't really fit in with any of these groups. And, some of their arguments can be just as blind-sighted as Leah's friend's.

hope to see all you later today... keri

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My apologies as well for the personal email to Jno...yes I perpetuated the Reply-to stupidity.

In light of recent emails to othergroup, I want to once again invite everyone to the opening this evening at Polvo Art Studio, Terrorist Art: Protesting War.

This is less shameless self-promotion as a sincere invitation to gather at our space this evening and discuss recent events, plan future courses of action, and, in general, unite together.

I hope to see many of you there.

Peace and resolve for a better way! Ali Walsh Polvo Art Studio

**************************************************************************** **********************

TERRORIST ART: Protesting War

Featuring: John Weber, Mark Nelson, Edra Soto Fernandez, Miguel Cortez, Amy Mall, Juan Compean, Jesus Macarena-Avila, Robert Corwin, Jason Churchill, Sonja Kruitwagen, Saul Aguirre, Cariana Carianne, Tom Simbley and Jno Cook

Terrorist Art: Protesting War will open at Polvo Art Studio adjoining the installation, sculpture, video, photography, mixed media and painting of fourteen veteran and emerging Chicago artists. Propelled by the tensions, anxieties and complexities of war, their collaborative effort will critique and promote awareness of the casualties of war and the benefits of peace. From comical manipulations of homeland security to acute examinations of domestic and international policy, the artwork acquires sociopolitical agency and transmits the opinions and voice of the Chicago art scene in respect to this war.

Opening: Friday March 21st 6pm-10pm Show runs till: Saturday April 19th

POLVO ART STUDIO 1257 W 18th Street, Pilsen Chicago, IL 60608 T: 312.217.3050 polvoarte at yahoo.com [http://www.polvo.org] Terrorist Art show hours: Saturdays 12-5pm Support all Polvo activities! Buy a Polvo t-shirt (designed by Dolan Geiman) for $10 dollars!

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Marc, Michael and others- Heard you shut down Lakeshore drive--keep up the good work!
-Steve

Thank you Michael Bulka. Anyone who opposes this stupid war and would like to participate in something exhilarating that costs a lot less than $750.00 would do well to head downtown at some point today. I do not go to very many protests and marches, and was not part of any organized group either, but last night was a powerful and important experience. You don't have to chant those chants if you don't want to. Come enjoy the pleasure of walking through downtown Chicago in the middle of the street with hundreds of other decent and happy civilly disobedient people. If you are feeling as much tension and sadness as I was this week, I would recommend coming out as a terrific way of alleviating some of that misery and being with a lot of very normal, fine people - many of whom will be your friends who also needed to get out of the house to express some of their dismay about the hopelessness they are feeling. My hope is that after regaining some semblence of humanity, I'll be able to closely think about art projects again too. Many artists are naturally having a pretty hard time getting any work done this week.

Marc

bulka wrote:

"I'm having a hard time tonight caring about the cost of renting a coat check rack.

I'll be at Federal Plaza at 8 AM Friday, hoping not to be arrested before coffee.

This shit makes these niggling negotiations seem petty, and the nik-naks of the Real show even more silly and irrelevant.

I'm not part of any organized group, but I march with an ad hoc skeleton band. Come play with us or talk to me if I can help some other way."

Michael

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Sorry for the off topic postings, but these are the times we're living in.

I encourage you to visit [http://www.chicago.indymedia.org/front.php3]

it's pretty active, with lots of postings about Friday's marches, Thursday's, and plans for today's. And other stuff. And work back for other info.

We'll be counter-demonstrating at the Rally for America, Federal Plaza (Dearborn & Adams) 11 AM Sat.

Y'know, I really don't like doing this sort of thing, but those assholes don't give me another choice. What else am I gonna do - sit home and yell at the radio? Stay in the studio making pretty pictures and let the grown-ups run the world?

I don't want to repeat the comments I made on the indymedia site, but tonight's very polite march, between hundreds of well armed police, was sad. Like getting graffiti artists off the street by giving them a few square feet in a library or train station. The city just built a riot-suited blue playpen so we can work out our little tantrum until we get tired. Clogging the LSD was bold and good: tonight barely counted as a protest.

We'll see what happens when we meet the "Saddam Must Die" crowd tomorrow. From what I saw tonight, we don't have to do much to make them look foolish, but I doubt they, the media or the gov't will recognize the foolishness.

sorry, i'm tired. see you tomorrow.

michael

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As Bulka said, the excessively patrolled march through public space last night left a lot to be desired as compared to the free form fun of Thursday evening. The turnout felt impressive and massive but it was deeply unpleasant walking between lines of riot cops along a predetermined route. There have been a bunch of reports of people having an impossible time even joining the protest because of the police lines/barricades. Anyway, I felt like cattle and was reminded of why I don't usually go to marches. Nonetheless, it was an impressive showing. And if the city ever wants to organize a Chicago PD football, ice hockey or lacrosse league, they have a really tremendous array of pads, gloves, and helmets at the ready. If a baseball team ever needs a couple thousand catchers there should be plenty of shin guards to go around.

And here is news of a more creative protest from an email from Edmar:

"Proof that we do not need to gather in federal plaza to protest was confirmed when at 11:00pm a hundred members of the Antiwar Street dancing team took over the intersection of Milwaukee Damen and North. They danced to some smokin hip hop selections of the Pink bloque sound system stopping traffic for about 10 minutes. The dancing team dispersed into the woodwork of the Liquor park neighborhood when dozens of CPD (not in Ninja gear) responded to the spontaneous reclamation of the streets... No arrests everyone got a way to protest another day. The CPD then continued to block traffic for another 15 minutes..."

Oh yeah, and WGN reports that a lot of girl scouts have been sending happy letters to the troops. Ra ra ra. Marc

bulka wrote:

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yea, I arrived late and the cops wouldn't let me in so I just marched along side of the group with a bunch of other people including two guys who were for the war (or at least support the troops or something). It was kind of sad to see everyone confined like that, but whenever they stopped we were on the sidelines cheering them on.

I have to say that I was pretty frustrated for a few reasons:

1. some guy that was yelling at the pro-troops guy. he was really annoying and embarrassing - saying things like "guys who like guns are homos!" I mean, what is that all about?

2. This guy, who I guess is a representative from some organizing group who was yelling to his friend from inside the protest "yea, these FREAKS won't let you in, so meet me at the end.." and the same guy gets up at the end of the march and goes on about despite the efforts of the cops to derail the march ... This was annoying, not because I think the cops were there to protect our free speech or anything, but because I don't see how this type of antagonism is in anyway productive.

3. how easily a peace protest can feel un-peaceful.

anyhow, sorry I won't be downtown this morning. I had to take a cab home last night after the march because of stomach pains. turns out I have a bladder infection. sorry, I know that's too much info.

on 3/22/03 6:54 AM, Marc Fischer at marcf at corecomm.net wrote: "There have been a bunch of reports of people having an impossible time even joining the protest because of the police lines/barricades. Anyway, I felt like cattle"

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Hi All,

Regarding recent events:

It's important to remember that our society, like any other, will always have lying within it a certain number of people who when given the opportunity, will happily become "terrorists", mass murderers, torturers, rapists, death camp guards, and abusive monsters of all sorts. Denied an opportunity, they live quiet normal lives, and probably don't even know themselves that they have this propensity within them. Yet when a society begins to fall apart, or lose it's cohesive moral vision, these folks come out of their shell, and begin to show us what actually was lurking within them. They are indeed terrifying. And all the more so because they are so avarage, yet so outrageous. They seek the power to become such monsters by accusing other people of the very darkness lurking in their own hearts.

The nazis accused the Jews of being "sub-human", yet in the end this is exactly what they themselves turned out to be. Bosnia, Angola, Nicaragua; various countries all over the world and throughout history have in their turn been over-run by these "terrorists" within them, and then broke into orgies of mass murder, torture, rape and pillage; neighbor against neighbor.

There are real terrorists among us, make no mistake. But they are not usually the ones being labeled as such. More often then not, they are the ones doing the labeling. History has proven this time and again. But we never seem to learn the lessons of history. It's as if there is some perverse inclination within us all, that occasionally just has to embrace the insanity. And we don't realize that we've done it until it's too late, and the real monsters are out of their cages.

I'm not calling anyone a in particular a "terrorist", here. I'm merely pointing out that people who like to do terrible things to other people are always among us. And that they often begin their path to hell by accusing other people of being the very demons that are lurking within their own hearts and minds. In the end it's their desire to kill the monsters they see in other men that expose the monsters that they themselves have become. In fact the monsters they were seeing in other men were really only the reflections of their own internal demons.

It's times like we are living in now, that require us to be extra vigilant for the demons lurking within our own hearts, and within our own governments. The "terrorists" within and among us will do us far more harm in the end than those "out there", that we are attempting to destroy.

Let's be vigilant.

Dave S.

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Sorry, because that was a forward it got chewed up. here's the full text:

Information for anyone arrested during the protests:

The National Lawyers Guild will be holding a meeting on Sunday March 30, 2003at 2 p.m. at the Chicago Temple, 77 W. Washington, Chicago (southeast corner of Washington and Clark).

The meeting will address legal issues and legal representation for people who have been detained, arrested and/or charged at recent demonstrations. We will dicuss legal representation for those facing criminal charges and those who may wish to pursue a civil rights suits against the police.

In the effort that we can systematically collect information about the illegal arrests that have occurred at and since the Thursday protest, the Chicago National Lawyer's Guild now has an E-mail address where we should all E-mail the contact information (name, address, telephone, E-mail address), next court date, amount of bond posted, and the charges. Please E-mail at:

m20arrests at nlgchicago.org

This data will be put in an address book which we can use to contact all arrestees, to better determine how and who we can assist in their criminal cases, and to perhaps bring a civil action on behalf of some or all of these folks.

Lorelei Stewart

Director, Gallery 400, UIC

1240 West Harrison Street (MC 034)

Chicago, IL 60607

312 996 6114 T

312 355 3444 F

[http://gallery400.aa.uic.edu]