September 2005, 58 posts, 1276 lines
The Other Group,
The unfortunate problem with "going to far" is that it might be a requirement. In an era where the afternoon news will show a corpse, people are pretty jaded. The news media goes for shock and without it an artist will to often get thinly covered in the mass media.
In a world saturated with artists and (thanks to the internet) unlimited access to all of their work, it is incredibly difficult to get much attention if your being conservative. The best example of this is John Currin who is technically a great painter but came to prominence with fairly tasteless images of buxom women. Could he paint a great still life? Probably. Would he have gotten covered widely in Art in America? Probably not.
Hersts shark is breathtaking and while an animal was killed for it - all those sable brushes and rabbit skin glues and stretchers aren't with out their victims. Art has always made pretty extensive use of nature for ingredients whether it's been mined, cut or killed. The hope is that what gets made has some measure up to what it took down in the process.
As far as 'going to far' the part that worries me is that Rodin went 'to far' with nice romantic sculpture that was highly shocking in it's day. Lets hope the future isn't so distraught that the things we are recoiling at today aren't so blase then.
haddon pearson
NEW AND EXCITING: Bad at Sports: the Art and Cultural Review Podcast
Two goofs do interviews and reviews and more! New features added every week! Come and experience our early beta testing phase.
Contributors and collaborators welcome, c'mon you budding art critics!
[http://badatsports.libsyn.com/]
Hi * Apologies for the very short notice, but we are looking for some artists to help us beta-test the Chicago Artists Resource website..... either tomorrow (Wednesday Sept 21) or Thursday, Sept 22.
This is an opportunity to get a sneak preview of the site, and to help us work out any bugs or confusing terminology.
We're meeting for an hour, from 5:30 to 6:30 p.m., at the Gallery 37 Center for the Arts, 66 E. Randolph St. The "test" will be followed by some pizza and small gifts to thank you for your input.
Please let me know if you are interested. Many thanks,
Barbara Koenen Chicago Dept. of Cutlural Affairs 312-744-7649
Barbara Koenen Project Manager, Cultural Planning Division Chicago Department of Cultural Affairs 312-744-7649 barbara.koenen at cityofchicago.org
Othergroupers, sorry for the gratuitous plug. We happily accept contributions from reviewers! If you want to get involved drop me a line.
Friends, Midwesterners, art fans: lend us your ears! Okay, trite, we know. For those who have not yet been pestered by the editorial team at Bad at Sports: the Arts and Cultural Review (read as Duncan MacKenzie and Richard Holland), we would like to make you aware of our new podcast, the first Chicago area art podcast, which can currently be found at:
[http://badatsports.libsyn.com]
You may be asking: what exactly IS a podcast? Well, it is a very media-hyped way of allowing people to record their own radio-style show and then offer mp3 files for Ipods. "But," you say, "I don't own an Ipod!" No problem--most podcast listeners don't! You can just download mp3s directly from the site to listen to on your computer. Just click on the "download file" link. If you DO use Itunes software and want to subscribe (so your computer downloads our new show every week), cut and paste the following link into Itunes or whatever podcast software you happen to use.:
[http://badatsports.libsyn.com/rss]
THIS WEEK: Our third show consists of a record review, lots of new equipment to have quirky problems with, and, most importantly, a great interview with Chris Sperandio, creator and executive producer of ArtStar, the first art-world reality TV show coming to a Dish Network station near you. He makes kick-ass comics, too!
COMING SOON:
Next week: Public artist, sculptor and art journalist Amanda Browder is in the studio. We talk about her forthcoming projects. Amanda sticks around do reviews with Duncan and Richard as they talk about the Bruce Nauman show at Donald Young and Nevin Tomlinson at Gallery 40000.
Also we will soon post links to art opportunities on our blog. I just went to a great presentation by the City of Chicago, and the Illinois Arts Council on funding for artists.
AND, coming soon, our web site with links, more elaborate show notes and other goodies. It will eventually be located at:
www.badatsports.com [http://www.badatsports.com]
SECOND LASTLY
We welcome contributors. We will happily review recorded submissions. We'd love to have people come into the studio to record their thoughts but it is hard enough to get both Duncan and Richard in the same room at once, so sadly, we can't record your bits for you, but if you have a mic and a computer send us your reviews or whatever. E-mail us to discuss.
LASTLY
If you revceived multiple copies of this e-mail or if you want us to go away please e-mail us at badatsports at gmail.com mailto:badatsports at gmail.com and we will do our darndest to remove you from this list! Sorry.
hey everybody
If anybody knows if the old newartexaminer.org archives are anywhere online,
could you post the location here
or email it to me
if your information might incriminate?
I'm looking for a couple old articles I wanted to email my students.
thanks
kevin hamilton kham at uiuc.edu
NAEs are not online. There are copies at most of the museums including The Art Institute's. Try that first as they have the most complete collections. As a last resort, I have access to the NAE archive, but it is not a complete collection.
Curt curt at curtconklin.com
Kevin,
Sorry, I didn't see that you were in CA. Call me if you want help finding articles.
773 782 0659
Curt
I see Mr. Conklin got on before I did. You can also Contact Paul Klien at artletters.com I understand he just acquired I fair run of NAE. I'd be happy to look through my collection which is mid 90's through the end of the run.
Michael
Um, nope, I'm not in CA, I'm still in CU - I'm sure I can get them through our library, I was just hoping that they could be included in linking and such in Wikis and blogs and the like. I have a few hard copies even that I printed out back in the day.
There's a different kind of looking offered through the Web that I'd love to allow our students access to, especially since now the archives represent something of a time capsule.
If you're ever interested in putting them up again, maybe we could host them on a server down here at UIUC, and make a new front page for them to set some context/history?
Thanks though,
Kevin
Curt Conklin wrote:
QUOTEKevin,
QUOTE
QUOTESorry, I didn't see that you were in CA. Call me if you
want help finding
Kevin -
Not sure what kind of database access you have there (other than HAL, of course) - but HWWilson at [http://www.hwwilson.com/] has a number of articles online for NAE. You can download many of them as either PDF, HTML or text. Last I checked there are 1718 articles running back to 86 I think.
Of course, the downside is - it's a subscription service.
can we get google to put them all online?
Barbara Koenen Project Manager, Cultural Planning Division Chicago Department of Cultural Affairs 312-744-7649 barbara.koenen at cityofchicago.org
QUOTE calanc at
yahoo.com 09/21/05 12:31 PM NAEs are not online. There are copies at
most of the museums including The Art Institute's. Try that first as
they have the most complete collections. As a last resort, I have access
to the NAE archive, but it is not a complete collection.
Curt curt at curtconklin.com
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Kevin Hamilton wrote:
QUOTE There's a different kind of looking offered through
the Web that I'd
QUOTE love to allow our students access to,
especially since now the archives
QUOTE represent something of a
time capsule.
I agree. This sort of thing should have been undertaken years ago. However, parts of the NAE were up at various times. But initially so reluctant or broken as to be an embarassment. I tracked their site from 1997 through 2002 for Spaces.org. I just provided a link and some comments, not the contents, for there was no content. A typical comment for 1997 (from my archive) ran..
Tezcat went defunct, BTW. In Spring 1998 the NAE started listing back issues for sale. Plus a very few (broken) links to art in Chicago (only one gallery).
In 1999 or 2000 the got their own domain, [http://www.newartexaminer.org/] and started to archives material from some past issues.
In 2001 and 2002 I lost interest and only listed the Meta Description from the file header.
I am providing this information because at least two and possibly more years' worth of stuff (although I dont know how complete) were archived at one time. Some one should have the backup tapes or HD of that material.
This might save a lot of time if any of you were to get a grant to spend three months doing an OCR of back issues. I am sure that probably all the text of the last years were digitized as a means of economies of scale in editing and typesetting, and should be available on someone's long lost harddrive.
HTH /jno
Barbara Koenen, Project Manager, Cultural Planning Division, said - can we get google to put them all online?
Why doesn't the city work in tandem with the entity that holds the NAE's archival body or its business remains? These would be an invaluable resource online for the project that you are now testing. A searchable data base of local and national contemporary criticism by names and dates could provide a marvelous draw to your site from beyond the city and provide a usefull introduction into current projects and venues. After a period you may even explore expanding beyond the NAE archive to include program documents such as catalogues, posters, fliers etc. The CPL or the historical society could be used to engage in the housing of physical archives of related materials in the interest of preserving and disseminating Chicago's cultural contributions to the atmosphere of modern, po-mo and contemporary art culture. The city might even move towards grant provisions being allocated to the creation of these catalogues or providing other usefull resources for their disemination. MT
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Dogmatic gallery wrote:
QUOTE Why doesn't the city work in tandem with the
entity that holds the NAE's
QUOTE archival body or its business
remains? These would be an invaluable resource
QUOTE online for the
project that you are now testing. etc.
I agree: Absolutely needed for "CAR".
/jno
- [give me a database and I'll
write the search engine]
I was kidding (sort of) about google. But putting NAE on CAR is an interesting idea, and we have a book module that can accomodate it. If the records are digital, and we got some volunteers to do the uploading, we could probably do it fairly easily. Who should I be talking to? B
The Other
Group If you haven't taken a listen "Bad at Sports" you should, it is
pretty good. They are still in their infancy and anything could happen
but they seem to be on the right track. Hopefully the show will take
some flight and only get better.
--- The best new work of the fall
shows was one of Rasheed Johnson's at Monique Meloche. I could pass on
the whole show except for one that had a sports jersey. It was simply
embroidered "while people (heart) me". And while simple to look at as
well as in the making it's been a while since I've seen a work that so
strongly raised social issues. I have that racist cousin-in-law, who
despite his backwards opinions is a non-stop sports fan. There is
something really powerful in this work to hit on this. With everything
that race relations lack in this country sports stars manage to attain
the status of near gods, and the same people who will pass along an
unfortunate joke will discuss endlessly the accomplishments of their
African American sports hero. There is a social duality in here that
Rasheed hits on in a way that is fiercely, blisteringly, sharp. It's not
just an artwork- you could write a book on this topic. If the guy can
consistently make work like this (less with the broken 2x4's) he'll get
a lot of fans. Haddon Pearson
screw those guys, they talk to much about stuff
They are clearly jerks. This week Amanda Browder interview and Nevin Tomlinson and Bruce Nauman reviews.
In addition to being jerks who talk too much they are also interested in having people submit their recorded reviews for "podcast" so if you have something to say, let us know!
badatsports.com
Hi all, rare surfacing, but I just had to comment on this :)
In my humble opinion making a statement on the subject of racism within the comfortable confines of a major metropolitan area gallery does not do justice to the subject. A racist cousin-in-law is not likely to visit MMgallery. I don't know Rasheed's work very well. Has he done any public projects where he has taken a similar approach and taken it to a neighborhood sports bar for example? I think I would look at the work differently had that occured.
dima strakovsky
They say if a noise is loud enough, it can make you throw up. I can almost attest that this is true after going to the Musicircus today with Simon. So here is my Child-in-tow review.
My son is 3 and loves lights, so I figured Dan Flavin would be a good match. I also know someone in the Musicircus (Goh, who does this clothing of wet wax, then poses and they cut it off his body, creating an immediate sculpture). We take the train, it's raining, a homeless guy says he'll walk us with an umbrella if we pay him. I tell him I only have a dollar and he says "you're on your own" and splits. So we're soaked, but Simon is a good journeyman, I dry him off on a coffee shop half way there and he's ready to keep going rather than go home, see the "pretty art lights".
The song "Shelter from the Storm" by Dylan kept going through my head. I was ready for soothing dreamy lights, but instead it was awful. It was crazy, I mean, totally crazy loud. There was a group musicians just jerking off with their instruments. And I'll use that phrase because there really was this ego-centric, self-absorbed, everyone just playing as loud as they could with no attempt at connection at the other players, just trying to get attention. We get in the elevator and I'm like "Holy Crap!" and a guy says, "Your kid is going to grow up terrified of art."
We get to the Flavin show, and I realize what the hell is going on. There is a "band" just like in the lobby, on every goddamn floor of the MCA. The noise, the ambient, screeching hum, was EVERYWHERE, and the MCA is open and it's all just bouncing around the MCA like racquetballs. There were roughly 4+ bands all just (again, the phrase)jacking off, trying to be heard. The guys downstairs had, like, trumpets, the guys upstairs I think were working more with screeching feedback from an amp. I've never felt such an inescapable sound. Everywhere you walked, end to end, floor to floor, it was there. There was a choir in the middle of the Flavin exhibit trying to compete as well. It wrecked Dan Flavin for us. The blue lights just felt creepy, I felt nauseated from the bass noise, Simon was withdrawing, and the whole exhibit like the eye of a bad acid trip. It was curated badly, you didn't know where to start or where it ended. It just looked like stupid neon lights in the midst of noise. No shelter from the storm, that's for sure. I like Flavin, but this was awful. The United terminal at o'hare is like heaven in comparison.
A great book once said, when you write, just remember that a person dying from an terminal illness might read your work. What does your work have to offer them? And that really came back to me. What does this exhibit offer people who are more sensitive to sound? We keep saying everybody should appreciate art, but how can it when art ignores huge slices of society? I can see why Dogma and other movements just try to bring it back to basics, and not "win" by being bigger and louder than the next thing.
We kept trying to get away from the noise, following the balloon strings down to the carp pond. We liked the balloons floating in the spiral staircase with the checkerboard projected onto it. We seemed to have mystically gravitated towards everyone else trying to escape the noise as there were a bunch of mothers with kids looking at the fish. One woman said "my kids don't need this".
At the bottom of the stairs was another group of musicians, surprise surprise, playing random notes and making yet one more bullshit racket - right next to the "artists and families" area, where miserable children were holding instruments and trying to hear themselves think. We finally escaped to the theatre between shows. We got away from the ambient disaster for the first time. We sat on the seats. Simon was a good sport. The he walked up the stairs, where every third step had a lightbulb built into the step. "Art lights" he said. It was a poor man's Dan Flavin, but at least the noise was gone. Simon would rest his head on each step and looked at the light. Go up three stairs and look at the next one.
So then we left, not without seeing a guy leaning on the donation box with a pink umbrella playing a pink kazoo. I just thought, "you suck".
On the MCA steps was a guy with Duchamp's stool and wheel, but he was playing it with a fork, like a Duchamp-o-phone so to speak. Simon was hypnotized, and I think it gave this guy on the step some legitimacy and confidence and a crowd gathered. Eventually, the puddle Simon was standing in started to compete for his attention and we left. On the train home Simon said the wheel and fork was his favorite part.
So my million dollar analysis was this. Where was the MCA? Why didn't anyone have the nards to admit this was an auditory mess and shut parts of it down? And as a community, wouldn't you think someone would say "hey, for all practical purposes, we're all one band, as the noise travels, let's play as one band." Experimental music is more that cacophony, but MCA would have you think it's this cookie-cutter formula of just a bunch of yahoos screwing around, making random noise.
And I never found my wax friend, I had no idea where to look and just wanted to get the hell out after a while.
So that's how I saw it.
Kathryn
On Sep 25, 2005, at 9:17 PM, Kathryn Born wrote: "They say if a noise is loud enough, it can make you throw up. "
You should have gone to see Khanate tonight at the Empty Bottle. It was extremely quiet and peaceful. At one point it was so pin-drop silent I could hear crickets chirping outside of the club. Next time they play here, I would highly recommend that you see them. It was a beautiful experience of peace. Look them up or purchase their excellent new EP "Capture & Release". You'll definitely be into it. The lyrics would appeal to children.
Marc
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005, Dmitry (Dima) Strakovsky wrote:
QUOTE I don't know Rasheed's work very well.
Started with big portraits of pained looking black pan handlers taken off the streets of Chicago and photographed at a Columbia photo studio. Magnificent images, but suspiciously exploitive. The pan-handlers got $10 for a sitting, Rasheed got $2000 for a print.
/j
Kathryn Born kborn at neurosaudio.com wrote: "On the MCA steps was a guy with Duchamp's stool and wheel, but he was playing it with a fork, like a Duchamp-o-phone so to speak. Simon was hypnotized, and I think it gave this guy on the step some legitimacy and confidence and a crowd gathered."
I think Duchamp's wheel has been overloaded with significance. Here is one of my favorites of a theory on his inspiration (second image on right):
[http://www.temporaryart.org/96/jorg/autoero2.html]
I heard there was a Fluxus performance at the MCA event, but it sounds like it was one giant Fluxus piece.
"So then we left, not without seeing a guy leaning on the donation box with a pink umbrella playing a pink kazoo. I just thought, "you suck"."
This is one of the more sour grapes, "art is stupid" approaches to reviewing I have seen on this list.It reminds me of when I was a guard at the AIC and people would walk into the room with the Clifford Still and say "my kid could do that" dismissing some work that with a bit of thought could have been appreciated.
I agree wholeheartedly that it was too loud, having done 9359 experimental music events I am perpetually mystified as to why loud=good for some people. Despite what Kathryn says it a) wasn't all loud noise, there were some lovely performances and a few standalone pieces of art (admittedly mine inclusive, the record player piece) that weren't loud and bombastic. I was disappointed that a few juvenile bozos trying to be as loud and awful in the spirit of trying to be transgressive took away from an event that should be applauded. Despite its problems this was one of the more community minded, exciting thing that the MCA has done in my memory. 500 people from the community performed, showed pieces and had an opportunity to reach an audience they might not have had. I feel bad for those who walked in damp with a bad attitude because they missed some truly beautiful stuff worked in among the horrendous noise.
Kathryn, I got out of there real quick. What a way to ruin Dan Flavin for the hordes that came to the MCA yesterday. Claire Krantz
On Sep 26, 2005, at 7:27 AM, Claire Wolf Krantz wrote: " What a way to ruin Dan Flavin for the hordes that came to the MCA yesterday."
Wait, I thought we already had a consensus that it is hordes of people who ruin the Dan Flavin exhibit?
Music ruined the hoards of people that ruined the Dan Flavin exhibit? Marc
Well, nobody with complaints about Musicircus gets any sympathy from me. One day during the Flavin exhibition involves public performances throughout the building. that is hardly ruined. Even if it was your only day to go, you could have avoided it. I only read or heard 6 articles/announcements for Musicircus last week--Tribune, Reader, Time Out, npr (or was it wnur? or both?), etc.. I also received 3 institutional emails, not counting personal emails from friends involved. There was a lot to warn you if it wasn't your cup of tea. Most didn't hide the fact it was going to be crazy.
I agree with Holland, doing Musicircus is one of the few exciting music things the MCA has done in a while. And great for the number of people involved, and for involving groups the MCA usually doesn't acknowledge. I applaud the MCA for having the "nards" to do the event. I missed it, instead I was on the side of the highway in Indiana with a broken car. Maybe I know too much about cage, and like his stuff too much, but the idea of Musicircus is pretty much cacophony. Playing as one band is precisely not the idea. When alive, Cage himself lead some really raucous (that probably made the mca's event seem tame) versions of this event.
True, the MCA is an acoustic nightmare, and in events like this, it should be mandatory to get people in there beforehand so they can see how the sound will echo and bounce. I know this didn't occur, which is too bad. certainly not a perfect execution. I'm sure when organizing that many performers, there will be a couple bad apples, then again, every group is not supposed to be at the same volume level, if some group is overbearingly loud for half and hour that's the set up.
Marc is right, you could hear a pin drop during Khanate, but that's only because everyone was stunned by the air waves emanating from the amps at sporadic intervals. a
Wasn't this event titled "MUSICCIRCUS"? Doesn't this imply a little chaos, at the least?
On Sep 26, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Aeelms at aol.com wrote: "Well, nobody with complaints about Musicircus gets any sympathy from me."
Same here. I sadly missed Musiccircus because of too much exhaustion from exhibition and event organizing combined with excessive drinking and loud music the night before. And I kinda wanted to save my ears and brain for the very delicate and tranquil sounds of Khanate later in the evening.
But on paper, or on my computer screen in emails, Musiccircus sounded like an absolute blast, and a very very rare trip into anything even slightly resembling chaos for the MCA. Experimental event-based projects at the MCA that don't revolve around trying to get someone's digits are far too uncommon. The announcement for Musiccircus was the first MCA special event that made me prick up my ears in a long time.
Sure, this kinda thing is gonna risk of screwing up someone's experience of an exhibit for an afternoon, but I'd rather see the MCA do it this way, than through the kind of commercial concessions we've discussed on othergroup in the past. This event sounded like a healthy challenge to viewers' expectations and one we could afford a whole lot more of.
Marc
This was my personal review. Not to hand out credentials, but I am a big fan of conceptual art of all forms. My feller and I are working on a piece where we vocally harmonize with a leaf blower, and we're currently practicing with the sonicare toothbrush. I am there. I am one, and I do understand. I've focused a lot on work designed to "challenge the idea of an audience's idea of what it means to be entertained."
But, a couple things. One, I feel, as an artist, it's healthy to make a personal judgment call. I didn't have a good experience. I'm not God handing out reality on a platter, I'm just someone saying I was confused and didn't like the experience.
On a larger note (and I've said this before), I'm very interested in taking a totally different approach to writing about experimental art. I think we take traditional art writing based on models of understanding representational art, and apply that to conceptual art. What if avante garde writing, or highly highly personal unrelated writing, was used to describe the piece. An extreme example would be to write about what you were thinking about while listening to a musical piece, rather than write about the piece. And that would be your review. My experiment over the last year is to look at who I am as one personal audience member, where I was in my life at that moment, and my reaction to a piece, and throw away all ideas of describing the piece objectively. Because my experiences in life apply a wash over everything I see, and if I try to be objective, maybe I'm trying to see the piece as you (plural) would see it and I would see it. And then I'm guessing, and then I'm lying. It would be great to have reviews comparing people and experiences and creating a collective review, like Marc going to Flavin during the day, in the quiet, and contrast the user experiences we each had. What does Flavin look like when it's quiet. What does Flavin LOOK like when there is noise. To me.
So yes, for Richard, it probably does play off as a "my kid could do better than that" review, but that's only a shortcoming of the writing. I'm a huge fan of putting a paper clip on a piece of paper and regarding it with art-style awe, but MCA was a curatorial auditory mess. It was a "mishap". Yes, Cage, cacophony, all good things. But this was 4 cacophony groups combined that weren't aware of each other. It was acoustic cacophony downstairs mixed with electronic cacophony from upstairs and that wasn't a curatorial choice. This is also a taxpayer-supported institution that invites families and then has a volume that's inappropriate for a sensitive audience. And I'm just calling them on that, like I'm calling them on the fact that I had no idea where to even begin looking for my friend with the wax clothes. It's also talking about improvisational work possibly requiring improvisational curating, maybe taking action during the performance to help the overall experience. Can't a curator improvise? Maybe they shouldn't have, but did they have that option?
It's just one person's opinion. Ok, back to my day job.
Kathryn
Wasn't at the circus,
and I actually wasn't into the Flavin show either (though that has more to do with Flavin than with the show),
But I just wanted to interject something here -
I'm all for Kathryn's call for expanding the conventional voice of art critique, especially in the area of acknowledging the subjectivity of the author.
There are people working on this - it's a tough one though. There's a lot you're fighting against, including:
1 - the tradition in some modern art of ascribing genius and even authority to overt expressions of subjectivity - i.e., Because one is accomplished, one is allowed to break with the convention of hiding the voice.
2 - the equally common tendency toward equating subjectivity with relativism and even nihilism, at the expense of close reading or productive arguments. - i.e., "you see tomato, I see tomato, let's call the whole thing off."
I say keep fighting it though, Kathryn, and find some ways to make it work. (And to be fair, I'm responding more to your explained motivation than to your original email, which I don't think you characterized as a review.)
Someone I've enjoyed who is working on this from an admittedly academic point of view is Jane Rendell, from the UK, who primarily writes about architecture. She's been working with different typographical conventions to indicate shifts of critical voice from memory, to observation, to narrative within the same review or essay. (It's not as 90's as it sounds - you can actually read it, and there's no blur filters.)
Kevin
PS - Wish I'd been at the Bottle for the Wirefest this weekend. That's the one art event I cared about driving up for in a while. The idea of Khanate for kids is funny. I like it.
PSS - Kathryn, you might look into my friend Kelly Dobson's work, who was vocalizing/harmonizing with Boston's Big Dig back in grad school.
"I'm just someone saying I was confused and didn't like the experience. "
Well, not quite how the original complaint was framed. I believe there were sentences that doubted whether the musicians knew what they were doing, and that the MCA was to blame. That's hardly just saying you didn't like the experience.
This has been happening, by a great number of writers, since at least 75 or so, examples too numerous to mention here, with the little time I have.
No, it wasn't a curatorial choice, it was the way the piece is devised to happen. The groups are not supposed to be aware of each other or react or relate to each other, that was Cage's intention with the piece.
Yes, a curator can improvise. No, they didn't have that option. John Cage, who liked randomness and indeterminacy hated improvisation. There is a difference. If a curator had tried to direct the blending of the sounds/actions/groups, then it wouldn't be the piece John Cage devised.
By the way, it sounds like your child had a pleasant time overall. a
I've never posted to other group before. I thought musicircus was probably gonna be "Sheer Helish Miasma". I performed in Musicircus. yes..there were many perfomers "showing their ass" yes..there were many performers who were too quiet yes..it would've been nice to know when and where your pals were performing yes.. i had a headache before we evne went on but i hadn't had one in awhile and it was a nice one. I was pleasantly reminded or re-attuned to the greatness of "sheer hellish Miasma".
this is why I subscribed:
Oh....cool.
this man needs to go cuddle up with his patriot act and his brown shoes and his chilled mug of beer
this is the most astute thing written of the event..Huzzah!
how 'bout focusing on writing designed to be informative to your readers?
Again..Great..me too..u got it!
one man said..I hate that woman and i dont need her kids either.
This is by far the scariest and most uninformed thing in the whole lot...Nothing worse than somebody with an MFA who feels that cuz they "spent some time" with their "texts" and their "pals" and their "groups" that they should comment broadly about something that they are painfully unaware of. Most of the time when I look at or hear soemthing new or live or whatever I give it the benefit of the doubt and put the blame on myslef for "being uninformed" but thats just me and thats what Im trying to get rid of here. As Mayo Thompson said (out of context mind you).. "we moved out of the art galleries as quickly as we could. ...that was the kiss of motherfucking death as far as I was concerned. ...But i insist on making my own stupid questions rahter than the ones that are on everybody elses mind. As I said, I was under the impression that that was what Rock and Roll was all about."
thats it
QUOTEthis man needs to
go cuddle up with his patriot act and his brown shoes
QUOTEand his
chilled mug of beer
QUOTE
I love you Stephan Lacy.
On Sep 26, 2005, at 9:17 PM, stephenlacy at academyrecords.org wrote: "I was pleasantly reminded or re-attuned to the greatness of "sheer hellish Miasma".
Stupidly missing Kevin Drumm's performance of "Sheer Hellish Miasma" at 6Odum when he had the smoke machine and the couches remains one of the great live music disappointments of my life. Whatever excuse I had for not seeing that show couldn't have been good enough. I saw him last night and meant to ask when he might perform here again. Truly one of the great under-recognized artists of Chicago. In my fantasy world, Kevin Drumm would have been commissioned to make a 200 foot tall tower made out of Sunn Amplifiers for Millennium Park. Every time there was another scandal in the Mayor's office, the amps would play "Sheer Hellish Miasma" on repeat until the matter was resolved in a fair and equitable fashion. Of course, this means that the album would be playing on repeat forever.
Steve you should come around these parts more often. Marc
QUOTEThis is also a taxpayer-supported institution that
invites families and then has a volume that's inappropriate for a
sensitive audience. And I'm just calling them on that,
QUOTE
QUOTE
How Taxpayer supported is the MCA? Minimally I would assume, the AIC got its money largely from an endowment and donors. If you are a donor you should complain! Did you pay to get in to the children event? I know Musicircus was free. In terms of funding, I know the NEA kicks in something and the City pays for the grounds keeping (in a totally bizarre public/private corporation structure which hurts my head to even think about), but that is the AIC I have no idea how the MCA is structured financially, although I doubt a major portion of those dollars come out of the pockets of the taxpaying public.
Anyway. I was there from 9 until 5. The "bring your kids to the museum" event officially ended before the show started. I asked a couple people around the place with the Musicircus and the MCA about that. And the music int he beginning was particularly musical, pity you missed that, there was a great high school band in the lobby at the beginning that was particularly enjoyable. Tiny Hairs played a lovely set from 2:15-3:30, they were nice too, subtle, pleasant to listen to... anyways.
I'm not bashing your having an opinion, good for you! I took your opinion as something thrown out as criticism and I found it narrow-minded and uniformed. Hell I hated much of what I saw there, who am to judge. I, however resented the blanket dismissal of the show because you were damp as that behavior from people outside the art world is aggravating and is offensive to me from those who should know better. Hating an art show is fine, great in fact if you can articulate why you hate it in a clear way that transcends "it sucked".
Good lord. I am truly fucking sorry I didn't like Musicircus. I swear, next time I'll think it's good. It's clear I am out of my league here at Othergroup.
Take care all, best of luck with your projects and future work. Kathryn
No need to get all huffy about it. Just don't go bashing stuff without thought. People work hard on shows, even if they suck they deserve a minimum of respect. You seem to be filled with commentary and insight why throw in the towel because someone challenged you. I thought that is what this list was all about.
Kathryn Born wrote:
QUOTEGood lord. I am truly
fucking sorry I didn't like Musicircus. I swear, next time I'll think
it's good.
QUOTEIt's clear I am out of my league here at
Othergroup.
QUOTE
QUOTETake care all, best of luck with your
projects and future work.
QUOTEKathryn
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
she did think about it. she just didn't think what you think she should have.
B
Barbara Koenen Project Manager, Cultural Planning Division Chicago Department of Cultural Affairs 312-744-7649 barbara.koenen at cityofchicago.org
QUOTE rholland at ponderance.org 09/27/05 7:40 AM No need
to get all huffy about it. Just don't go bashing stuff without thought.
People work hard on shows, even if they suck they deserve a minimum of
respect. You seem to be filled with commentary and insight why throw in
the towel because someone challenged you. I thought that is what this
list was all about.
Kathryn Born wrote:
QUOTEGood
lord. I am truly fucking sorry I didn't like Musicircus. I swear, next
time I'll think it's good.
QUOTEIt's clear I am out of my league
here at Othergroup.
QUOTE
QUOTETake care all, best of luck
with your projects and future work.
QUOTEKathryn
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
Saying something negative about a show or an event doesn't mean you haven't thought about it. Maybe we think more about the things we don't like. At least Kathryn and I went to see the event, and then had an opinion after actually being there. Also - the people who went to see the musiccircus may never have seen Dan Flavin's work, or even known about it. To a new viewer, the work probably looked like honky tonk. Some works need quiet. So do you think they would go back to see his work? I don't think so.
Nothing wrong with cacophany, something wrong with the setting and the choice of performers and where they were. People were actually trying to hear something and they couldn't. If they weren't expected to hear ANYTHING, especially violins and poetry reading, at least let them know that. Claire
what is the deal here.. didnt anybody read the promo materials " you wont hear anything, you'll hear everything."- john cage
QUOTE Saying something negative
about a show or an event doesn't mean you
QUOTE haven't thought
about it. Maybe we think more about the things we don't
QUOTE like.
At least Kathryn and I went to see the event, and then had an
QUOTE
opinion after actually being there.
QUOTE Also - the people who
went to see the musiccircus may never have seen
QUOTE Dan Flavin's
work, or even known about it. To a new viewer, the work
QUOTE
probably looked like honky tonk. Some works need quiet. So do you think
QUOTE they would go back to see his work? I don't think so.
QUOTE
QUOTE Nothing wrong with cacophany, something wrong with the
setting and the
QUOTE choice of performers and where they were.
People were actually trying
QUOTE to hear something and they
couldn't. If they weren't expected to hear
QUOTE ANYTHING,
especially violins and poetry reading, at least let them know
QUOTE
that.
QUOTE Claire
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
"Also - the people who went to see the musiccircus may never have seen Dan Flavin's work, or even known about it. To a new viewer, the work probably looked like honky tonk. Some works need quiet. So do you think they would go back to see his work? I don't think so."
In court, they call this kind of statement basesless conjecture and strike it from the records.
What frankly bugs me the most about Musicircus (didn't attend) is the pronunciation of it.
It that middle 'c' supposed to be soft or hard? Is it "myoo'zi's r'kəs" or "myoo'zik' r'kəs"?
I'm so confused.
article in the Trib about the event.....I didn't know Musicircus is a performace created by Cage. Makes sense now, wish I would have gone.
Perhaps, but it didn't strike me as something she had given a whole lot of thought to, as I have seen her write more articulately about things in the past.
I didn't like what she had to say, but I think in a forum like this which is supposed to be about intelligent discourse I had an obligation to call her out on her blanket dismissal of lots of hard work.
Does anyone have anything to say about the proximity of Flavin's work with Cage piece? Despite execution of the one, is their a bond that should be discussed between the two. Why Cage in the face of Flavin and not Glass, Riech or Rielly, who were actually contemporaries? When did Cage construct this work? Was this made public at the time of execution? The general idea of creating a childrens hour prior to a cacophonious sound event is intreging, is this the way that Cage intended it? Or is this a curatorial or institutional decision done after the fact. Cage is known for creating incredibly beautiful scores for his works. They are intricate and concise, but was the score for this piece made available to the public? Performers had designations in this performance, was this part of the score? Was the architecture or layout of the piece true to Cage or was it done to meet the standards set by the museum and the city? Is Cage's estate being reimbursed for this? In the end I'm asking was the piece performed or was it an interpretation enacted by an institution for reasons beyond its aesthetic value?
found at: [http://musicircus.chicagocomposers.org/about.html]
--John Cage, letter dated June 6, 1973
--John Cage, letter dated December 23, 1979
--John Cage, letter dated February 17, 1979
* * * * * * *
John Cage first brought the idea of the Musicircus to fruition in 1967 at the University of Illinois, where its first performance included jazz bands, pianists, dancers, mimes, vocalists, films, slides, black lights, balloons, cider and popcorn. A fusion of the words "music" and "circus," the musicircus is the expression of several of Cage's fundamental ideas about artistic creation and execution. It insists, for example, on a "multiplicity of centers" -- the insistence on autonomy for every individual component within the work, each a legitimate focus of one's attention at any time. It merges diverse art forms into a single, large-scale event that celebrates all of these forms at once. Most important, perhaps, it expresses Cage's burgeoning fascination with anarchic theory and social philosophy, as the result is not "dictated" by the composer, nor calls for the performers to yield their activities in deference to other performers (which would suggest an internal power structure among them). Instead, in anarchic fashion, each performer or ensemble responsibly contributes to what becomes a larger melange of sound and vision. The underlying idea for this piece (and it is certainly an "idea" for a piece rather than being any kind of notated composition) was also the basis for other works in Cage's output, each highlighting concurrent yet independent multi-media events. But it was the original Musicircus that is often recognized as the cornerstone of works in this genre.
To the audience attending this kind of event, the point is not the clear discernment of any individual musical event from beginning to end - an orchestra might be momentarily obscured by a passing barbershop quartet, or a harmonica player at one end of a room may well be playing simultaneously with but independent of any of a number of other musicians who are engaged in their own musical activities. Indeed, no single person can experience any Musicircus in its entirety. Instead, audience members ultimately create their own individual versions of the piece, determined not only by where in the area they might be situated at any given time, but by the events on which they choose to focus from moment to moment."
[http://musicircus.chicagocomposers.org/about.html]
thank you Michael Beyer.
Dogmatic gallery wrote:
QUOTEIs Cage's estate being reimbursed
QUOTEfor this?
QUOTE
QUOTE I'm not sure of the financial specifics, as the
event was free, I suspect the Composers Forum lost money on this. But I
did talk to Chris Preissing who runs the CCF and asked a similar
question, the representative from the Cage Estate was heavily involved
with the planning and execution of the show, was present for Sunday and
loved it.
I think the MCA should be applauded for letting something so grass roots go on in the musuem.
"I think the MCA should be applauded for letting something so grass roots go on in the musuem."
I agree, and ComEd should be applauded for somehow allowing so much electricty to flow to the MCA without browning out the downtown area.
i say let us let it all burn
QUOTE "I think the MCA should be applauded for letting
something so grass roots
QUOTE go on in the musuem."
QUOTE
QUOTE I agree, and ComEd should be applauded for somehow allowing
so much
QUOTE electricty to flow to the MCA without browning out
the downtown area.
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
Without putting words in Kathryn's mouth, it seemed that her reaction had to do with wanting to share an experience with her child....music, circus, colored flourescent light..... and having that desire loudly upended. That's what she was thinking about, I think, and what she was expressing. It is a legitimate concern, although not on the radar of most of the intelligent discourse in othergroup. It didn't help that you huffily chided her for being huffy, and accused her of not thinking. But it's funny how writing something in an email forum can have different effect than saying the same thing in a conversation.
Barbara Koenen Project Manager, Cultural Planning Division Chicago Department of Cultural Affairs 312-744-7649 barbara.koenen at cityofchicago.org
yes, thanks. this is great. wish I'd gone... B
Barbara Koenen Project Manager, Cultural Planning Division Chicago Department of Cultural Affairs 312-744-7649 barbara.koenen at cityofchicago.org
QUOTE automeris_io at
yahoo.com 09/28/05 6:36 AM found at: [http://musicircus.chicagocomposers.org/about.html]
--John Cage, letter dated June 6, 1973
--John Cage, letter dated December 23, 1979
--John Cage, letter dated February 17, 1979
* * * * * * *
John Cage first brought the idea of the Musicircus to fruition in 1967 at the University of Illinois, where its first performance included jazz bands, pianists, dancers, mimes, vocalists, films, slides, black lights, balloons, cider and popcorn. A fusion of the words "music" and "circus," the musicircus is the expression of several of Cage's fundamental ideas about artistic creation and execution. It insists, for example, on a "multiplicity of centers" -- the insistence on autonomy for every individual component within the work, each a legitimate focus of one's attention at any time. It merges diverse art forms into a single, large-scale event that celebrates all of these forms at once. Most important, perhaps, it expresses Cage's burgeoning fascination with anarchic theory and social philosophy, as the result is not "dictated" by the composer, nor calls for the performers to yield their activities in deference to other performers (which would suggest an internal power struc! ture among them). Instead, in anarchic fashion, each performer or ensemble responsibly contributes to what becomes a larger melange of sound and vision. The underlying idea for this piece (and it is certainly an "idea" for a piece rather than being any kind of notated composition) was also the basis for other works in Cage's output, each highlighting concurrent yet independent multi-media events. But it was the original Musicircus that is often recognized as the cornerstone of works in this genre.
To the audience attending this kind of event, the point is not the clear discernment of any individual musical event from beginning to end - an orchestra might be momentarily obscured by a passing barbershop quartet, or a harmonica player at one end of a room may well be playing simultaneously with but independent of any of a number of other musicians who are engaged in their own musical activities. Indeed, no single person can experience any Musicircus in its entirety. Instead, audience members ultimately create their own individual versions of the piece, determined not only by where in the area they might be situated at any given time, but by the events on which they choose to focus from moment to moment."
[http://musicircus.chicagocomposers.org/about.html]
wow! At the U of I, huh? Though there are good things happening down here, it's kind of shocking to imagine a Cage performance of this scale taking place at this institution. I'm going to do some digging, I want to know where it happened originally. This project is so spatial for Cage, and yet there doesn't seem to be much addressing of site in the work - thus the apt questions here about the project's relationship to Flavin.
The Marching Illini do practice in the field next to the Art Museum here every Fall afternoon, and when they are warming up, it's probably pretty darn close to a musiccircus, but that's about as close as we get these days.
Kevin
Michael Beyer wrote:
QUOTEfound
at: [http://musicircus.chicagocomposers.org/about.html]
QUOTE
QUOTE" "I have not made detailed directions for
Musicircus. You simply bring together under one roof as much music (as
many musical groups and soloists) as practical under the circumstances.
It should last longer than ordinary concerts, starting at 7 or 8 in the
evening, and continuing, say, to midnight. Arrange performers on
platforms or within roped-off areas. There must be plenty of space for
the audience to walk around. If you have more groups than places, make a
schedule: Group 1 in Place A from 7-9:30; Group 23 in Place A from
9:45-midnight. Etc. There should be food on sale and drinks (as at a
circus). Dancers and acrobats."
QUOTE
QUOTE--John Cage, letter
dated June 6, 1973
QUOTE
QUOTE"One very important element is
that there should at all times be many people performing simultaneously.
The next is that, since none of the musicians are being paid, there
being too many of them, the entire event must be free to the public. ...
In harmony with the separation of this work from conventional economics,
I have not made a score nor have I published one of course."
QUOTE
QUOTE--John Cage, letter dated December 23, 1979
QUOTE
QUOTE"Some years ago ... we gave a Musicircus ... in a large gymnasium.
We simply had as much going on at a single time as we could muster. And
we exercised no aesthetic bias. ... You should let each thing that
happens happen from its own center, whether it is music or dance. Don't
go in the direction of one thing 'using' another. Then they will all go
together beautifully (as birds, airplanes, trucks, radios, etc. do)."
QUOTE
QUOTE--John Cage, letter dated February 17, 1979
QUOTE
QUOTE* * * * * * *
QUOTE
QUOTEJohn Cage first
brought the idea of the Musicircus to fruition in 1967 at the University
of Illinois, where its first performance included jazz bands, pianists,
dancers, mimes, vocalists, films, slides, black lights, balloons, cider
and popcorn. A fusion of the words "music" and "circus," the musicircus
is the expression of several of Cage's fundamental ideas about artistic
creation and execution. It insists, for example, on a "multiplicity of
centers" -- the insistence on autonomy for every individual component
within the work, each a legitimate focus of one's attention at any time.
It merges diverse art forms into a single, large-scale event that
celebrates all of these forms at once. Most important, perhaps, it
expresses Cage's burgeoning fascination with anarchic theory and social
philosophy, as the result is not "dictated" by the composer, nor calls
for the performers to yield their activities in deference to other
performers (which would suggest an internal power struc!
QUOTE ture
QUOTE among them). Instead, in anarchic fashion, each performer or
ensemble responsibly contributes to what becomes a larger melange of
sound and vision. The underlying idea for this piece (and it is
certainly an "idea" for a piece rather than being any kind of notated
composition) was also the basis for other works in Cage's output, each
highlighting concurrent yet independent multi-media events. But it was
the original Musicircus that is often recognized as the cornerstone of
works in this genre.
QUOTE
QUOTETo the audience attending this
kind of event, the point is not the clear discernment of any individual
musical event from beginning to end - an orchestra might be momentarily
obscured by a passing barbershop quartet, or a harmonica player at one
end of a room may well be playing simultaneously with but independent of
any of a number of other musicians who are engaged in their own musical
activities. Indeed, no single person can experience any Musicircus in
its entirety. Instead, audience members ultimately create their own
individual versions of the piece, determined not only by where in the
area they might be situated at any given time, but by the events on
which they choose to focus from moment to moment."
QUOTE
QUOTE
[http://musicircus.chicagocomposers.org/about.html]
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
DG: "Despite execution of the one, is their a bond that should be discussed between the two. Why Cage in the face of Flavin and not Glass, Reich or Rielly, who were actually contemporaries?"
Well, a lot of the musicians and artists of that time intermingled, the minimalists performing at Hudson church with the experimental dance and theater people, artists being the musicians in the works of the composers--since serious musicians wouldn't do them, concerts in yoko ono's loft, events sponsored by jonas mekas or warhol, maciunas being landlord to them all, etc. In this light, there was overlap between folks like Cage and Reich. Flavin and Glass, et al. Flavin seems to have had more connections with folks like Cage than Glass. Mostly because of cage being more entwined with the artworld. Though Flavin did have some disdain for the Duchampian trail in art. Maybe it was the castelli connection in part? Anyway, Flavin wasn't as tight with the composers as deMaria or Lewitt or Morris or Serra. Reich and Lewitt were/are buddies. And Serra in there. Reilly was west coast and pretty out of that whole loop. Cage has strong Chicago/Illinois ties, and Flavin had early support from the MCA, unlike the other minimalist composers or artists. Certainly the open floor plan with mini rooms of the Flavin show, and the spatial construction of Cage's Musicircus make them an apropos pair. Music minimalism and art minimalism have always had a lumpy relationship between each other. Lots of love/hate and disconnect. Personally I've been trying to find texts about this recently.
Wrath of kham wrote: "wow! At the U of I, huh? Though there are good things happening down here, it's kind of shocking to imagine a Cage performance of this scale taking place at this institution."
Downstate Illinois was the place to be for crazy music in the early 60s to early 70s. many important electroacoustic works were made either at Champaing/Urbana, or Carbondale, which is even crazier. Both names pop up again and again in interviews with late 50s through midsixties electronic composers. Many people went to UofI for the mat/science/computing depts. It was one of a handful that was advanced and open enough to allow composers to come and spend time working on the programs for works. If I remember correctly, HPSCD, one of Cage's craziest and loudest works was made in residency at U/C campus. There is a fantastic Eric Dolphy concert from Champaign, where his backing band aside from a quintet featuring herbie hancock, is the UofI concert band.
strap on your eargoggles, a
Aeelms wrote about my generous employer, UIUC:
Yeah, I have heard bits about this, and there are a few plaques around and such. It gives me mixed feelings in my insides though. Doesn't this kind of union of the avant-garde and the technocrats make you nervous? There are some here who I think long to recreate those days, largely by the same formula - buy or build an expensive tool, and then invite artists to come use it. It's not an approach I trust too much, as an artist or a citizen. And yet there we have this stuff from that time...
MIT hosted similar unions in the post-war years. Artists and rocket scientists alike fled Europe and joined hands under people like Lawrence Weiner, letting art, science and architecture lead us forward into the World of Tomorrow.
It all sounds way too (Bruce)Mao to me - can we really get anywhere through this relationship to tech that generates anything as anarchic as musiccircus?
This is a huge conversation down here right now. Between the dried up state funds, the shiny prospect of corporate dough, and the dog-eared copies of Richard Florida's "Rise of the Creative Class," it ain't looking good.
These issues might not interest folks on the group here, but I just thought I'd send a little flag out about it, seein' as you're probably paying Illinois tax dollars and all.
I'm gonnna go look around for more history aeelms, thanks for the info!
Hello once again! On behalf of Chicago s first and shiniest art podcast, Bad at Sports: the Arts and Cultural Review, we once again pester you in order to give you the update on this week s show and what lies ahead.
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THIS WEEK:
We have Chicago artist Amanda Browder in the studio. She tells us all about her forthcoming public art project with Career Day and other exciting things. Amanda sticks around to help us review the Bruce Nauman show at Donald Young and the Nevin Tomlinson show at Gallery 40000!
NEXT WEEK:
Musicircus! An in-depth review of the extravaganza that was held at the MCA last weekend, as well as interviews recorded on site. A nod to John Cage s Musicircus, it was loved by many, hated by some (*othergroup* has been atwitter); hear what we have to say about it.
Also next week, an interview with Jason Dunda, as well as a review of the new Focus show at the Art Institute. We ll throw in some other reviews as well (a book maybe, or Western Exhibitions s new show?? Who knows?!?)
FORTHCOMING:
Chicago painter Bill Gross will school us on reviewing painting and will tell us about his new gallery, 65 Grand. We will also interview Philip von Zweck about HIS new gallery (everyone is doing it!), and we will talk with PVZ and David Coyle about David s show at Von Zweck. Also a big batch of openings on October 14th!
Future shows might include: Paul Klein (nee of Klein Art Works, now publisher of [http://www.artletter.com] ), Lou Mallozzi on the 20th anniversary of the Experimental Sound Studio, a gripping expose on the ultra-cool Three Walls, thoughts from Tony Wight (Bodybuilder & Sportsman Gallery) on Internet gambling, and much, much more. If you think you should be interviewed, let us know!
MEDIA BLITZ:
Check out our reviews in New City and on Chicagoist.com:
[http://www.newcitychicago.com/chicago/4699.html]
[http://www.chicagoist.com/archives/2005/09/23/bad_at_sports_good_at_podcasts.php]
SECOND TO LASTLY:
We welcome contributors. We will happily review recorded submissions. We'd love to have people come into the studio to record their thoughts but it is hard enough to get both Duncan and Richard in the same room at once, so sadly, we can't record your bits for you, but if you have a mic and a computer, send us your reviews or whatever. E-mail us to discuss.
VERY LASTLY:
Okay, so we are small, informal, dorky, but heck if you want to get involved but don t want to be on the air we d give three fingers off of our collective left hands to get some help!!! BAS needs another team member to deal with organizational flotsam and jetsam, schedule interviews, be the e-mail voice of BAS, whip up these swell press releases, and generally keep things pointed in the right direction. You have fun, correct bad grammar; we ll give you free beer and worship you like a god shining light into our darkroom of ignorance. Contact us if you are interested in this exciting, no-pay, no-glamour opportunity!
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The Bad at Sports Editorial Team